Johnny Miller's Legacy

[HJJ003]

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

I think the only thing about Miller's golfing career he is remembered for is Oakmont. He's had many more memorable candid broadcasting moments. Even though he can be annoying sometimes, I like that he speaks his mind. 

Yup. I didn’t know or at least didn’t remember hat he also won the Open Championship until I saw it mentioned  in one of the articles talking about his retirement. 

[MacDutch]

Johnny is a two time major winner and all together 35 wins in his pro career as golfer. What did he win as talking head? Look at Wikipedia, only info about him as a golfer. Look at the books and pieces that are written about him, all about him as a golfer. Johnny is in the world hall of fame of golf, read what they wrote! At his top in 74-75 he was like Tiger. Only one sentence there about his career as broadcaster.

Johnny the golfer has a far greater legacy.

 

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, MacDutch said:

Look at Wikipedia, only info about him as a golfer.

You missed a whole section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Miller#Subsequent_career

13 minutes ago, MacDutch said:

Look at the books and pieces that are written about him, all about him as a golfer.

A lot of articles have been written about him as a broadcaster.

---

It's fine that you've got a different opinion, but I'm still sticking with mine: Johnny influenced far, far more golfers with his broadcasting career, and was better known by more people for his broadcasting, than he ever was as a golfer.

[MacDutch]

You are right @iacas, I missed the part about his subsequent career. I also missed he won two Ryder cups. So I stick to my opinion as well 😁

Edited October 20, 2018 by MacDutch

[nevets88]

Huh. Dunno about the veracity of Woods asking him to be his coach (Wikipedia entry above), but if true, would have been interesting if he said yes. 

[Vinsk]

2 hours ago, MacDutch said:

You are right @iacas, I missed the part about his subsequent career. I also missed he won two Ryder cups. So I stick to my opinion as well 😁

Right. You missed that he won two Ryder Cups and you had to look up his career as a golfer. JM’s only legacy as a player is his 63 at Oakmont on Sunday to win the US Open. Millions of people have listened to JM for many years as a broadcaster and he brought his own unique touch which millions of loved or hated. That’s his legacy. Broadcasting.

[nevets88]

I remember he had that big lead foot roll like Speith. I guess he drastically reduced it around senior PGA days?

[iacas]

1 hour ago, nevets88 said:

I remember he had that big lead foot roll like Speith. I guess he drastically reduced it around senior PGA days?

He didn’t really play the Champions Tour. And yes, big reverse C.

[turtleback]

11 hours ago, MacDutch said:

Johnny is a two time major winner and all together 35 wins in his pro career as golfer. What did he win as talking head? Look at Wikipedia, only info about him as a golfer. Look at the books and pieces that are written about him, all about him as a golfer. Johnny is in the world hall of fame of golf, read what they wrote! At his top in 74-75 he was like Tiger. Only one sentence there about his career as broadcaster.

Johnny the golfer has a far greater legacy.

 

74 was Tigeresque, but that's it.  He had a good 74, but 4 wins in 20 entries, while excellent, falls far behind Tiger's years when he was in his prime.  

[Phil McGleno]

Broadcasting by far.-He was a better broadcaster than a player and he was a good player.

[NM Golf]

I seriously don't understand how people could believe his biggest legacy was as a golfer? If Johnny Miller had not gone into broadcasting, he would have gone into obscurity. He is isn't even considered among the top 30 players of all time. He had a pretty good career, that was completely overshadowed by many of his more successful peers. I mean the guy hardly even played on the Champions Tour. Had he not gone into broadcasting he would be Cary Middlecoff, ever heard of Cary Middlecoff? I have, but he's certainly not a household name despite having 5 more PGA Tour wins and 1 more major than Johnny Miller. 

[GolfLug]

I agree with broadcasting but I have been a golfer only for 13 years. Don't know much about him as a player outside a magical day at Oakmont.

As a broadcaster I loved his clarity, unpatronizing honesty and his edgy simplicity. He could scold without being condescending. Kept a difficult job interesting without making it sound like high art that needed ivy league education.

Will miss him.

[nevets88]

I don't remember the telecast, Miller didn't mention the US not practicing enough at all? I thought he did.

Quote

Miller, in fact, said that he pulled some punches as recently as the Ryder Cup in September because “I knew I was retiring soon.” Most of the American players were unfamiliar with the host course, Le Golf National, and Miller said he didn’t think they prepared adequately during practice rounds.

“I think the fact that the U.S. was playing nine holes a day, and those (European) guys played the (French) Open every year, and I’m thinking, ‘Are you kidding me? Nine holes a day? What else do you got to do but play?’” Miller said during his conference call. “I was fairly upset at that, because Europe set up that golf course totally unlike the Americans had ever played. It was like (an) old U.S. Open. … The bomb-and-gouge just doesn’t work on those kind of courses.”

 

https://golfweek.com/2018/10/21/golf-tv-was-johnny-miller-really-tvs-mr-nice-guy/

[MacDutch]

12 hours ago, NM Golf said:

I seriously don't understand how people could believe his biggest legacy was as a golfer? If Johnny Miller had not gone into broadcasting, he would have gone into obscurity. He is isn't even considered among the top 30 players of all time. He had a pretty good career, that was completely overshadowed by many of his more successful peers. I mean the guy hardly even played on the Champions Tour. Had he not gone into broadcasting he would be Cary Middlecoff, ever heard of Cary Middlecoff? I have, but he's certainly not a household name despite having 5 more PGA Tour wins and 1 more major than Johnny Miller. 

Thanks for the Middlecoff note. I just read his cv on the world golf hall of fame. Really good stuff. He also became a talking head.

http://www.worldgolfhalloffame.org/cary-middlecoff/

To answer your question: I feel golfers winning multiple times at the higest level are way more important then commentators on golf are. Most of the talking heads are irritating. As a broadcaster Miller irritated me.

Edited October 22, 2018 by MacDutch

[Wally Fairway]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 4:44 PM, iacas said:

Jim Nantz is another in the same field. His legacy is as one of the best broadcasters ever. Doesn’t matter if he retires in 20 years or 20 seconds.

What else would Jim Nantz legacy be? Being a college friend with Fred Couples?

 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Wally Fairway said:

What else would Jim Nantz legacy be? Being a college friend with Fred Couples?

The point was that his legacy is known, despite the fact that he's not been retired for 10-20 years as you've said is necessary.

On 10/19/2018 at 10:09 AM, Wally Fairway said:

IMO the poll is flawed because he hasn't even stopped broadcasting yet. Legacy will be defined in 10 or 20 years, at that time many people will never have heard his broadcasts, but his 63 at Oakmont, in the final round of the Open, will still stand.

I disagree with you that he has to retire from broadcasting for 10-20 years to assess his legacy as a broadcaster.

I think even if he had stopped broadcasting ten years ago, I'd still vote that broadcasting is his greater legacy.

He was at the top of the game for a significantly longer time as a broadcaster. He reached and influenced far more people as a broadcaster. And, it was second… Bill Cosby was a comedian, then he was a rapist, basically.

So Johnny Miller's greatest legacy is as a broadcaster, IMO, because it was both greater and later.

[ChrisP]

For the newer generation, he’ll be known more for his broadcasting. For the Nicklaus generation, he’ll be remembered for his playing days.

[turtleback]

5 hours ago, ChrisP said:

For the newer generation, he’ll be known more for his broadcasting. For the Nicklaus generation, he’ll be remembered for his playing days.

Disagree.  I'm of the Nicklaus generation and if Johnny hadn't become a broadcaster we would think of him as a flame that burned brightly for a couple of years but whose career was a lot closer to, say, Larry Nelson than a Lee Trevino.