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Phil McGleno

Kuchar Pays Caddie $5k, Is Shamed, Pays $50k

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It took the Kooch a month to write the statement apologizing and to decide to pay the caddie what he asked. Better late then never, but this incident will stick to Matt.

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7 hours ago, mvmac said:

This is my issue with the whole thing is how people make judgements about others based on their income thinking what they would do with their money based on their current lifestyle. 

@Vinsk

Mike, I think it's not about his networth or his lifestyle. It's about what his usual caddie bill would have been anyway. He would have paid as he has done throughout his career I am sure. 

I don't think it was a 'screw job' or anything malicious, but it's hard to have sympathy for those who do the absolute minimum necessary toward their obligations when the opportunity presents itself. Even less so for those are arguably fortunate.  

That's cheap. It may not be a crime but image is fragile.

 

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12 hours ago, chspeed said:

Forced? I’m sure he could have dug his heels if he wanted to. I’d say pressured, and I think that’s a good thing.

 

But he did dig in his heels at first and that's what got him into even more hot water. When the story initially broke, he doubled down on his stupidity saying things like $5,000 is a lot of money and I can sleep at night.

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18 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I don't think he made a mistake. In the end, no one can nail down a number he should have gave. People will blame him no matter what he does because he is a public figure. This isn't about money, it's about appealing to these crazy social media addicts so these sports news networks get clicks. 

I would like to agree with you but the moment he starts accepting sponsorship dollars from the brands he endorses; he has an image to keep.  If he doesn't, those sponsors lose money.  If he had zero sponsors I would be all in with you on him not making a "mistake."  However, in light of the fact that he has...as some would call it...soldout...he needs to be weighing these decisions in a totally different way.  Yes, that means catering the SJW crowd.  As much as that makes me nauseous to type it is true in 2019.

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This whole incident encapsulates where we now are as a society.  Private stuff gets made public by someone, usually of low or no accomplishment, trying to prove they are relevant and then a mob descends on someone who did nothing wrong and forces him to capitulate to their threats and demands.

Old people (like me) often lament the fact that they aren't young anymore.  But personally I'm glad I lived my life in the time period I have rather than living in the time period my kids will live most of their lives.  Social media is essentially causing our society to have a nervous breakdown bordering on a psychotic break.

Edited by turtleback
typo

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I guess I may be in the minority but I don't think Kuchar was being cheap or unfair. If anything I would say the local caddie should be the one looked at as selfish. I look at it like this, Kuchar offered his terms before the tournament started, the caddie agreed to it. The outcome is unknown at that point, if the caddie felt like he had a chance to win the tournament he should have spoken up and agreed to a specific amount in case he won. I try to put my self in the caddies shoes, I would think it was a cool experience just to be able to hang out with a pro and get a behind the scenes look at things. That alone would be worth more then the cash he asked for. To me it seems like the caddie took advantage of the situation afterwards saying hey I can get some money out of this now that he won.

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24 minutes ago, Northwoods88 said:

I guess I may be in the minority but I don't think Kuchar was being cheap or unfair. If anything I would say the local caddie should be the one looked at as selfish. I look at it like this, Kuchar offered his terms before the tournament started, the caddie agreed to it. The outcome is unknown at that point, if the caddie felt like he had a chance to win the tournament he should have spoken up and agreed to a specific amount in case he won. I try to put my self in the caddies shoes, I would think it was a cool experience just to be able to hang out with a pro and get a behind the scenes look at things. That alone would be worth more then the cash he asked for. To me it seems like the caddie took advantage of the situation afterwards saying hey I can get some money out of this now that he won.

I would think a good local caddie would be far better than their everyday caddie, at their respective course. I believe they have a lot more knowledge that you can't get 7 days out of the year. So to me, that is worth more than 5k and I would feel bad paying that and I am not as nice as Kuchar appears to be.

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4 hours ago, The Recreational Golfer said:

This whole thing is what you get when Mark Steinberg is your agent advising you. Never admit error, never be contrite, attack, attack, attack.

No. This is all Matt Kuchar.

1 hour ago, turtleback said:

This whole incident encapsulates where we now are as a society.  Private stuff gets made public by someone, usually of low or no accomplishment, trying to prove they are relevant and then a mob descends on someone who did nothing wrong and forces him to capitulate to their threats and demands.

Kuchar did nothing right either.

He took advantage of a guy. He was far less than generous or even doing the base amount.

He exposed himself as cheap and out of touch.

Just because their “contract” would hold up in court doesn’t mean Kuchar “did nothing wrong.”

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1 hour ago, Northwoods88 said:

I guess I may be in the minority but I don't think Kuchar was being cheap or unfair. If anything I would say the local caddie should be the one looked at as selfish. I look at it like this, Kuchar offered his terms before the tournament started, the caddie agreed to it. The outcome is unknown at that point, if the caddie felt like he had a chance to win the tournament he should have spoken up and agreed to a specific amount in case he won. I try to put my self in the caddies shoes, I would think it was a cool experience just to be able to hang out with a pro and get a behind the scenes look at things. That alone would be worth more then the cash he asked for. To me it seems like the caddie took advantage of the situation afterwards saying hey I can get some money out of this now that he won.

But the issue here is a lack of bargaining power by the caddie.  Kuchar took advantage of a guy who had local knowledge as his caddy and lowballed him--contract or no.  As before mentioned by others, this was well-below even the minimum guidelines for caddie compensation.  Whether Kuchar won or not is of no consequence, I agree, but arguably the caddie should be compensated at least market value for his services.  I'd like to see any written agreement if there is one.  Kuchar really damaged his otherwise good reputation with this stunt--whether he had a signed agreement or not.  Contract law is far from black and white as many layfolks believe.  

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I think Kuchar is getting way more flack for this than he should.   He should have paid the caddie more and I think that he was in the wrong there, but Gillis basically made it a public shaming when it should not have been.    I'm also quite surprised people are not going WTF about a "50k or nothing" response from the caddy.   

Being booed and having people cheer when you miss putts is also just ridiculous.  Most of those people probably are not discussing it to the length that people on this forum are and it's shame that it got to the level that it did before something else was done.

I'll tell you why I have some measure of sympathy for Matt.  I am lucky enough to make more money than both my family and my wife's family.   And what did they do to me for that?   They expected me to be their piggy bank and backstop for their life choices.   It became an expectation that I would help them if they got into trouble and I was given a lot of crap if I didn't swoop in and pay their bills.   I can't help but think that there is some measure of "well he's rich so he should ...." embedded in all of this.

No one really looks good in all of this.  The caddy looks the best overall, but it's a crap show.

Kuchar -  dude, you should know better and at the very least recognize that your bottom line doesn't change by doing something really nice for the caddie

Caddie -  sorry, but saying no to $15k tells me someone is in your ear about this.   from what I've read, you don't speak English and probably were a lot less help than other caddies.  But you did deserve better.

Gillis -  what an ass.

I caddied for 15 years.   Sometimes the guys paid well when they won.  Guess what, sometimes they didn't think they had to.  Did I like that?  No.   But I didn't expect some big bonus just because they hit the right shots to win.   Again, the caddy deserved more, but man how many people complaining about this are wearing clothes made in far away sweat shops or buying off Amazon which hits Main Street businesses hard.   That's basically the same thing, where you gain an advantage at the expense of someone else.   A lot of people in the midst of this should not throw boulders around (just a few stones so Kuchar does the right thing though).

 

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2 hours ago, turtleback said:

...Private stuff gets made public by someone, usually of low or no accomplishment, trying to prove they are relevant and then a mob descends on someone who did nothing wrong and forces him to capitulate to their threats and demands.

 

 

Setting aside the uneducated comment on social contribution, nobody forced Kuchar to do anything.  What were the "threats" he capitulated to?

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1 hour ago, ncates00 said:

 but arguably the caddie should be compensated at least market value for his services.

So the $200, or whatever it was, that he makes on a normal round?

What is market value here? Or is it quality of service? He wasnt going to be paid the same as a normal caddy because he could no where near give the same quality of service. He should’ve been paid a bit more, yea but no normal 8-10%, imo.

I still think Kuch made a dick move to try and take advantage of the situation. But this whole Kuch makes this much money, this caddy makes such and such a day, so he should get paid more thing is BS.

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33 minutes ago, phillyk said:

he could no where near give the same quality of service.

I keep reading this sentiment. Kuchar won the damn tournament. What exactly does this say for the ‘quality of sevice’ for caddies? It’s not like a fluke football game with a second string QB...we all know how difficult it is to win a PGA tournament. So I’m not real sold on the quality of service as much as I am that his regular caddy as, Erik mentioned, would’ve had many more expenses incurred coming to this tournament and the off course assistance he probably gives. 

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9 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I keep reading this sentiment. Kuchar won the damn tournament. What exactly does this say for the ‘quality of sevice’ for caddies?

Next to nothing. For all you know with his regular caddie he wins by six.

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11 minutes ago, iacas said:

Next to nothing. For all you know with his regular caddie he wins by six.

Win by six doesn’t get him anything else. I’m just saying in this situation arguing the caddy must’ve done a sub-par performance is pointless. If caddies are crucial, he must’ve done a decent job being that his player won. And for all anybody knows he loses with his regular caddy.

Edited by Vinsk

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4 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Win by six doesn’t get him anything else. I’m just saying in this situation arguing the caddy must’ve done a sub-par performance is pointless. If caddies are crucial, he must’ve done a decent job being that his player won. And for all anybody knows he loses with his regular caddy.

No, that’s bad logic.

It doesn’t say anything about the value a regular caddie provides.

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