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On 2/7/2019 at 8:19 AM, Cantankerish said:

Good day, all.  I have buckets of questions, but this one comes up consistently in my game:

I don't really have a good tool for the 100 yard shot.  And it comes up all the time.

My first method was to lay off the pitching wedge.  I hit it about 130 yards on a pretty good stroke. Then I got myself a gap wedge.  Note: my budget is pretty tight, so I picked up a used one.  It is peculiarly short, 52 degree loft.  I like the club, but it only hits about 85-90 yards for me.  That is similar to what my sand wedge hits, so I do not have a club for this distance.  I am not entirely unsatisfied with the 75% pitching wedge shot.  It kinda works.  I now have a 4 hybrid in the bag to fill my 180-190 yard range which also comes up frequently - and for which I have no such workaround.

 

Is it common practice for golfers to face this issue?  Is there a known best option?

Is the club length a major issue here? Perhaps I have been hitting the club wrong so as not to get proper distance.  I wonder if it is worth getting another gap wedge to find out, but then I have to remove another club.

(Everything in golf makes me nervous.  There is so much to learn, and it is not clear to me when to follow my gut and when to take instruction.)

You don't have an issue, you'll have to accept the concept that you don't need a golf club for every 10-15 yards.

I know a lot of golfers don't like to practice the short pitch shot on the driving range , thinking this is a waste of range balls.  In fact, the short game is as important as the long game in golf.

If the range ball gets expensive, find a place of 200-300 feet long with privacy to practice your pitch and chip and run shots.

When the driving range is having the 2 for 1 sale, we used to play a game of name your target with friends.  We'll take one golf club, say a 7 iron, and rotate the target from 170 yards to 45 yards.  After buying a couple of rounds of pitcher of local micro-brew, one learns really fast how to use the tools.

A whole tool box of the tools might not be necessary to finish a simple job.  If we learn to use fewer tools to do the job, the same job will be easier if additional tools are available.

Up until Tom Kite won the Open at the Pebble Beach with 3 wedges that year in 1992, most every golfer carried  only 2 wedges; the PW and the SW.

Now I'd see golfers carrying 3,4 wedges in the bag.  I'd tell myself that these golfers carrying 4 wedges must have a helluva long game that they would carry more short sticks.

Learn to use the tools you already have.  If your full-out PW gets you 130 yards, learn to take it off to 120, 110, 100, 90...… By either grip down on the club or 3/4 swing..... or both.  It'll start as feeling odd and lack of confidence if you have used to full swing only.  But you'll get the idea and the confidence after you learned that you can do these yardage.  Plus it's fun.

Many of the legions in the golf history started with just one golf club.  Try to hit golf shots on the sandy beach with 3 iron.  That's how Seve started.  Ouimet and Hogan all started with just a few old golf clubs given to them by the members of the golf club where they caddied at.

Travino and Rodriquez ( Chi-Chi) learned by hitting pebbles with a wooden stick.  

The tools you'll need for 100 yards shot are already in your bag, and the golfer has the skill to use the tools , just not self-discovered, yet.  When you learn to use the 8 iron , or the 6 iron to make the 100 yard shot, the PW will seems like a perfect club.  And, it's a lot of fun discovering just where your limit is.

Let me put it in a simple way, if you know how to drive a car with manual transmission ( what's that ?), driving the automatic transmission will be a piece of cake.  If you know how to multiply , add/subtract by heart, a calculator will even work faster and you can spot the error easier......

Sometimes, the shortest route to Rome might not be the best way to go.

 

 

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On 9/23/2019 at 8:54 AM, Cantankerish said:

Do you do this because the high lofted clubs are so hard to hit properly compared to, say, a 75% pitching wedge?  Is there some other kind of advantage to selecting a shot like this?

Simple.  Shot variety.  I can go with the longer club to flight it down to go at a back pin, or go with the shorter club to spin back to a front pin.

On 9/23/2019 at 8:54 AM, Cantankerish said:

I have been thinking about tackling that skill, but I am not sure if it important (compared to the other skills I would like to acquire) if I have command of the wedges such a shot would compete with.

I wouldn't say it's necessary, but it is certainly a good skill to have and one that is transferrable to your overall GIR game.

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On 9/27/2019 at 3:21 PM, Release said:

I know a lot of golfers don't like to practice the short pitch shot on the driving range , thinking this is a waste of range balls.  In fact, the short game is as important as the long game in golf.

No, it isn’t. It’s important but nowhere near “as important.” It’s not really even close.

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29 minutes ago, iacas said:

No, it isn’t. It’s important but nowhere near “as important.” It’s not really even close.

you are certainly entitled to your own opinion.

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I have a similar issue between by pitching and gap wedges, I hit my gap 100 yards and my PW 130, so when I am 110 to 115 out I don't have a club to swing.  Taking a smaller swing with my PW always seemed to come up short.

What has worked for me is to use my gap wedge and put the ball back and a couple of inches in my stance.  That takes a some loft off the club a bit and gives me the extra 10 yards I need without having to over swing to get it there. 

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17 hours ago, Release said:

you are certainly entitled to your own opinion.

It’s not an opinion.

And look, I'm not trying to be short about it, it's just that there are thousands of posts here that talk about it, my book talks about it, you can find this information all over the Internet, etc.

At every level of the game, the full swing or "long game" matters quite a bit more, and when you add in the relative difficulty of each (the short game and putting being MUCH simpler), it's folly to spend even half the time on your short game as your full swing.

There's a brief introduction.

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3 hours ago, Release said:

you are certainly entitled to your own opinion.

Go do some strokes gained research and you'll find you're wrong.  It's kinda common sense too when you really dig past old cliches and false ways of thinking.  You're a whole lot closer to the best putter/wedge player on tour in the those areas than you are the best ballstriker on tour in ballstriking.

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On 2/7/2019 at 9:30 AM, p1n9183 said:

Pitching Wedge: 130
Sand Wedge: 90

That´s a big gap! You gap wedge need to be a club you hit 110. The one you bougth hits 90, that´s not what you need. Sell it and by another with 48..49° and see if you can hit it 110.

This is how I fill the gaps:

I hit my full 43° = 140
Full 47° = 130
3/4 43° = 120
3/4 47° = 110
3/4 51° = 100
3/4 56° = 85
3/4 60° = 75

I don´t like to hit full swings with my wedges anymore.
  

Wow! This is why you’re so good...

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On 9/27/2019 at 3:21 PM, Release said:

Up until Tom Kite won the Open at the Pebble Beach with 3 wedges that year in 1992, most every golfer carried  only 2 wedges; the PW and the SW.

Now I'd see golfers carrying 3,4 wedges in the bag.  I'd tell myself that these golfers carrying 4 wedges must have a helluva long game that they would carry more short sticks.

Did you take into account that modern clubs are lofted stronger? Tom Kite had the right idea, but you could count his 9 iron as a modern PW, unless I am mistaken. I would wager that pros have been carrying 3 "wedge lofted" clubs for a long time. Modern PW are 44-46 degree instead of 49+. Its hardly a fair comparison to say that Kite was playing 3 wedges and modern players are playing 4. They are the same club but with different numbers/letters on the heads. I will say that modern driver/wood tech has put players closer to the green as well, which would warrant more short clubs.

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5 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

They are the same club but with different numbers/letters on the heads.

Not necessarily. Modern irons except blades are designed to launch higher due to change in the center of gravity, MOI, etc. Because of this, the static loft is lowered slightly to optimize launch conditions. So static loft is only one factor. Even modern blades will launch higher than blades from 40 years ago. 

That being said, we should always go by distance gaps when we do wedge selection. That includes partial wedge shots.

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On 9/28/2019 at 5:32 PM, iacas said:

It’s not an opinion.

And look, I'm not trying to be short about it, it's just that there are thousands of posts here that talk about it, my book talks about it, you can find this information all over the Internet, etc.

At every level of the game, the full swing or "long game" matters quite a bit more, and when you add in the relative difficulty of each (the short game and putting being MUCH simpler), it's folly to spend even half the time on your short game as your full swing.

There's a brief introduction.

Did not buy in at first, even after reading LSW the first time...my short game improved way faster than my long game...now I'm reading it again, near the end of my season...spent most summer practice on short game and putting...still found myself short in regulation....Separation value...got it. My long game needs to get longer...It will save me more strokes. Gonna spend the winter with Eric's can of spray on my club face.

and like others are saying about when I get close...depending what iron I got in the bag, using whatever I gotta use, in the air or bump and run, to get in on the green....been spending the last two winters just hitting targets at the indoor range with anything from a 60 degree to a 6 iron.

I just need to convert  more NGIR to GIR

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Another angle...

I have got some experience hitting partial wedges.  I technically have at least two options for 100 yards now.  There's the 52* which I hit 100 yards with a standard swing.  And then the 9-iron 2/3 swing.  Honestly, I am okay with both.  I just need to practice the 2/3 9I more.  But...

Just look at this and you will see:

56* SW: up to 85 yards

52* GW: up to 100 yards

50* GW: up to 115 yards

46*? PW up to 145 yards

 

I hate that big hole of about 125-130 yards, and it does come up commonly.  I like the 50* Titleist wedge I have, but I am considering a 49* GW.  I can't go buying lots of clubs though.  Can anyone recommend a course of action here?

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1 minute ago, Cantankerish said:

Another angle...

I have got some experience hitting partial wedges.  I technically have at least two options for 100 yards now.  There's the 52* which I hit 100 yards with a standard swing.  And then the 9-iron 2/3 swing.  Honestly, I am okay with both.  I just need to practice the 2/3 9I more.  But...

Just look at this and you will see:

56* SW: up to 85 yards

52* GW: up to 100 yards

50* GW: up to 115 yards

46*? PW up to 145 yards

 

I hate that big hole of about 125-130 yards, and it does come up commonly.  I like the 50* Titleist wedge I have, but I am considering a 49* GW.  I can't go buying lots of clubs though.  Can anyone recommend a course of action here?

Learn to hit a partial PW just like you have learned to hit a partial 9 iron. 

For me, gripping down halfway (about 3 inches), ball position about 1-2 ball widths back from normal, and the feeling of a 3/4 swing with a held off finish results in pretty much exactly 20 yards less of distance with a lower trajectory across every club I have tried it with so far (7 iron through sand wedge)

aka I followed what was said here:

 

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2 hours ago, Cantankerish said:

Another angle...

I have got some experience hitting partial wedges.  I technically have at least two options for 100 yards now.  There's the 52* which I hit 100 yards with a standard swing.  And then the 9-iron 2/3 swing.  Honestly, I am okay with both.  I just need to practice the 2/3 9I more.  But...

Just look at this and you will see:

56* SW: up to 85 yards

52* GW: up to 100 yards

50* GW: up to 115 yards

46*? PW up to 145 yards

 

I hate that big hole of about 125-130 yards, and it does come up commonly.  I like the 50* Titleist wedge I have, but I am considering a 49* GW.  I can't go buying lots of clubs though.  Can anyone recommend a course of action here?

What clubs are you playing? That’s a huge gap at an important yardage that I don’t think 1° of loft will fix.

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2 hours ago, Cantankerish said:

Another angle...

I have got some experience hitting partial wedges.  I technically have at least two options for 100 yards now.  There's the 52* which I hit 100 yards with a standard swing.  And then the 9-iron 2/3 swing.  Honestly, I am okay with both.  I just need to practice the 2/3 9I more.  But...

Just look at this and you will see:

56* SW: up to 85 yards

52* GW: up to 100 yards

50* GW: up to 115 yards

46*? PW up to 145 yards

 

I hate that big hole of about 125-130 yards, and it does come up commonly.  I like the 50* Titleist wedge I have, but I am considering a 49* GW.  I can't go buying lots of clubs though.  Can anyone recommend a course of action here?

First, the qualifier of "up to" is a bit suspect here.  I'm unclear as to what that exactly means.  Is it your once in a lifetime/stars line up perfectly hero shot or your "comfortable max" or what?  That aside, my 2 cents are:

Why go the route of strengthening the 50?  You've got nice 15 yard gaps from 85 to 100 and 100 to 115.  It's the PW that is the issue (at least with respect to your gapping, assuming it correct); maybe bend the PW down a bit.  It is odd though seeing only 2* difference in your 2 gap wedges--pretty funky.  But if those yardages are accurate, the gaps are good except for the PW.  

For instance, I go 60-56-51-47.  That gives me pretty much 10-15 yard gaps in my set.

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Bill, the pitching wedge is part of an Adams Golf Tight Lies set that I got used.  I do not know which year. 50 is Titleist. 52 is a big Bertha.  Sand wedge, not sure.  It is an annoyingly big gap.  I wonder if I should get a 48 instead.


 

Ncates, These wedges are what I happen to have picked up as I learn more about what I need.  There is no particular plan behind the gapping.
 

”Up to” as in max.  I do not like to try to hit that range, but in the absence of conditions, that’s max range.

 

 

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