Vijay Singh admits to using banned substance in Sports Illustrated ...

[newtogolf]

Best defense is a good offense.  Act like you're pissed that it unknowingly contained a banned substance and you will seem more innocent.

Originally Posted by clarkeycats

Sounds like Vijay is pretty pissed!

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Best defense is a good offense.  Act like you're pissed that it unknowingly contained a banned substance and you will seem more innocent.

I'm not sure about this tact.  Good examples I can think of are Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, and Rafael Palmiero.

I've never understood why more people don't go the Jason Giambi route.  He came out immediately, apologized, didn't even really specify what he was apologizing for, and it pretty much went away.  Granted he's not quite a star on the level of those others, but still, he was a big name guy, he got out in front of the story, admitted it (sort of) and moved on.  Consequently, so did we.

If I was a PR guy, that's what I would recommend to my clients.

[newtogolf]

I agree, but as you pointed out, most don't take this approach and instead feign outrage.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I'm not sure about this tact.  Good examples I can think of are Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, and Rafael Palmiero.

I've never understood why more people don't go the Jason Giambi route.  He came out immediately, apologized, didn't even really specify what he was apologizing for, and it pretty much went away.  Granted he's not quite a star on the level of those others, but still, he was a big name guy, he got out in front of the story, admitted it (sort of) and moved on.  Consequently, so did we.

If I was a PR guy, that's what I would recommend to my clients.

[dsgreen3]

You guys are missing the point golf is a game of honesty and integrity you are supposed to call penalties on yourself. All he had to do was phone the tour and ask before he did it. He should get a life time ban.

[Kujan]

I think Vijay was being honest in his statement. He obviously hasn't been trying to hide anything.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

I have a bottle of this stuff too. My friend gave it to me as a gift 2-3 years ago, but I never tried it. I never realized it was a banned substance. Now I want to try it

I think I lost it though. Oh well.

OK, so I texted the friend who gave me a bottle of this stuff. "Yo, your deer antler crap is blowing up now, bro," and he texts me back "Bro, the whole reason I bought that stuff 3-4 years ago is I read an article where Ray Lewis was raving about how great it was." Today, Ray Lewis denied ever taking it. My friend says he's been looking online tonight for that old article but can't find it anywhere.

Pretty interesting, eh? Something's fishy about ol' Ray Lew.

Edit: Here's the actual text I got:

[VOX]

Nonsense. Vijay made a mistake. he used it openly (unlike Armstrong). Mark Calcavecchia and another golfer were promoting the stuff.

[joekelly]

Unfortunately, ignorance is no excuse for Vijay. Whether some ban on his employment is in order i cannot say. The PGA tour has no sterling record on drug testing so could be that they are partly to blame for not taking this drugs  issue seriously, years ago.  Vijay and F. Couples also had some kind of blood or plasma 'medications', injections, etc in Germany a few years back for spinal pain treatment. Gotta wonder what the PGA says about that.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by dsgreen3

You guys are missing the point golf is a game of honesty and integrity you are supposed to call penalties on yourself. All he had to do was phone the tour and ask before he did it. He should get a life time ban.

That is ridiculous  First time offense, no attempt to hide it.  Should you maybe have your livelihood taken away if you ever break a rule at work?

His anger is also different than those other athletes cited.  His statement says he is angry at himself, not angry at the allegations.

I think an appropriate consequence would be a fine and maybe a 3-month suspension.

[clubchamp]

Originally Posted by misty_mountainhop

So IGF-1 has growth promoting properties? So what? It won't do anything as a spray and deer IGF-1 (even if there actually IS any in this stuff that's active) may not bind human IGF-1 receptors. IGF-1 is related to insulin and I'm certain diabetics would be spraying like mad if insulin was effective as a topical agent. Incidentally, insulin itself has pretty significant growth promoting effects but is that on the list of banned substances? Finally (and I guess most importantly), if they can't test for it, how on earth are they going to prove VJ actually ever had any in his system?

They can test for it but only through a blood test and the NFL does not do blood tests which is why I found it funny Ray Lewis went with the "I've never tested positive" line. No kidding you've never tested positive because you've never actually been tested for IGF-1. I'm not sure if the PGA tour does blood tests but I'd probably doubt they do so he would have never been caught either way. I worked at the FDA when deer antler came on the radar and for the most part you're correct there wasn't much in the results to make it out to be more than a placebo effect. However some of the high dollar versions showed significant amount of growth promoting effects but not if enough to send up steroid type red flags. The other thing is outside of pro athletes, bodybuilders etc. people can't or don't know how to get their hands on the high dollar version. Putting it in simple terms there was definitely enough to make pro sports ban it but not enough the FDA really needed to regulate it.

[Blitz28179]

Is it me but is the golf channel making too big of a deal about this?Thats all they talked about the last 2 days.They even interrupted a program yesterday when vijay released his statement :(

[colin007]

Originally Posted by dsgreen3

You guys are missing the point golf is a game of honesty and integrity you are supposed to call penalties on yourself. All he had to do was phone the tour and ask before he did it. He should get a life time ban.

lol at people getting all butthurt about golf...

[CanuckAaron]

Originally Posted by colin007

lol at people getting all butthurt about golf...

+1, no sport is immune, not even golf. There is way too much money on the line.

[Dave2512]

Some of the substances on the banned list are rediculous. Most aren't controlled substances and are nothing more than modern folk medicine. It's one thing if someone is sticking a needle in their ass but the products that can be bought at GNC and the like are dubious at best. Vijay should have known better but this is getting blown out of proportion. The Morning Drive guys are treating this like they just heard Tiger retired. For two hours they asked and attempted to speculate on possible answers. It's not that big of a deal. The benefit claims of this particular product are unproven. The dope police need to concentrate on legitimate concerns and leave the voodoo products out of it. What's next a ban on protein bars? The media is frothing at the mouth trying to scoop the next Lance Armstrong story.

[colin007]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

The Morning Drive guys are treating this like they just heard Tiger retired.

i have never known the Golf Channel to overreact to anything.

[misty_mountainhop]

Originally Posted by clubchamp

They can test for it but only through a blood test and the NFL does not do blood tests which is why I found it funny Ray Lewis went with the "I've never tested positive" line. No kidding you've never tested positive because you've never actually been tested for IGF-1. I'm not sure if the PGA tour does blood tests but I'd probably doubt they do so he would have never been caught either way. I worked at the FDA when deer antler came on the radar and for the most part you're correct there wasn't much in the results to make it out to be more than a placebo effect. However some of the high dollar versions showed significant amount of growth promoting effects but not if enough to send up steroid type red flags. The other thing is outside of pro athletes, bodybuilders etc. people can't or don't know how to get their hands on the high dollar version. Putting it in simple terms there was definitely enough to make pro sports ban it but not enough the FDA really needed to regulate it.

Good info, thanks. I still don't see how spraying it anywhere is going to do anything. If VJ (or anyone else) has access to expensive, purified human recombinant IGF-1 and is injecting, that's one thing. Spraying a deer concoction of dubious provenance containing questionable IGF-1 activity from a species whose IGF-1 may not have any effect in humans is another.

If I didn't know better I would think that this is a deliberate bit of media stirring to get at VJ....

[rehmwa]

So my question is about the anecdote concerning Keegan...

How the hell does it take TWO WEEKS for the PGA to make a ruling on something as common as creatine?

Seriously, did the staff all come from government jobs?

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Blitz28179

Is it me but is the golf channel making too big of a deal about this?Thats all they talked about the last 2 days.They even interrupted a program yesterday when vijay released his statement :(

What ticked me off is when the Morning Drive guys talked to the guy who wrote the article and afterword implied that he told Vijay it was banned and THEN Vijay made his statements.  When clearly the author said that he didn't think Vijay realized the substance was banned.

I would bet anything that what actually happened is the guy called Vijay and said he was doing an article about this company and their products and how they don't use steroids and practically induced Vijay to make endorsement-like statements once he realized that Vijay didn't know they were banned.  None of that excuses Vijay and I'm on record as supporting a fine and something like a 3-month suspension.  But it is more for stupidity than malice or intentional rule-breaking.

And after this I doubt Vijay will ever talk to a reporter again.