Rushing Because of Faster Players Behind

[WUTiger]

People taking practice swings while waiting for the par 3 green to clear - or the landing area on a longer hole - is just ready golf.

I play in a multi-group Senior's league, and also in local amateur circuit events. There's one or two holes a round where you have to wait on shots - people had to hunt for balls on a blind tee shot, or get rules advice on the unusual drop procedures such as a bunker that is ground under repair.

I'm just getting ready on the tee behind you - and trying to stay loose - while you finish up. Especially if it's a par 3, I want to rehearse the shot more than a routine driver shot.

If my group daydreams while waiting for the green to clear, it means we're not ready to go when you leave. Two extra minutes of "get ready" time per golfer can shift from a temporary bottleneck to an entire nine that's bogged down.

[Moppy]

People taking practice swings while waiting for the par 3 green to clear - or the landing area on a longer hole - is just ready golf.

I play in a multi-group Senior's league, and also in local amateur circuit events. There's one or two holes a round where you have to wait on shots - people had to hunt for balls on a blind tee shot, or get rules advice on the unusual drop procedures such as a bunker that is ground under repair.

I'm just getting ready on the tee behind you - and trying to stay loose - while you finish up. Especially if it's a par 3, I want to rehearse the shot more than a routine driver shot.

If my group daydreams while waiting for the green to clear, it means we're not ready to go when you leave. Two extra minutes of "get ready" time per golfer can shift from a temporary bottleneck to an entire nine that's bogged down.

Once again. we are talking about a single, riding alone, on a course that is full of groups. He is far faster than any group, he should expect that his pace is going to far outstrip every group on the course, and there is nobody pressing from behind. So by playing balls to the wall full speed ahead, constantly ready golf, and running into group after group, he is not being in any way discourteous to the many other golfers he runs into and presses?

" This is a result of my inability to deal repeatedly with the stares back and several verbal confrontations I've had." - Hatchman

There is an old saying, "You run into one jerk today, he's a jerk, you run into several, you're the jerk."

BTW, All I have ever said is that the practice swings on the part of the single riding alone not being pressed from behind in any way, are a sign of impatience, not a crime against golf. I think you guys don't know what impatience means.

[newtogolf]

Once again. we are talking about a single, riding alone, on a course that is full of groups. He is far faster than any group, he should expect that his pace is going to far outstrip every group on the course, and there is nobody pressing from behind. So by playing balls to the wall full speed ahead, constantly ready golf, and running into group after group, he is not being in any way discourteous to the many other golfers he runs into and presses?

"This is a result of my inability to deal repeatedly with the stares back and several verbal confrontations I've had." - Hatchman

There is an old saying, "You run into one jerk today, he's a jerk, you run into several, you're the jerk."

What would you prefer the single golfer do, sit in his cart and possibly stiffen up waiting?   I agree its an uncomfortable feeling to be pushed but if the course is packed and you're keeping up with the group in front of you then you shouldn't worry about what he's doing behind you as long as he doesn't hit into you.

[Moppy]

What would you prefer the single golfer do, sit in his cart and possibly stiffen up waiting?   I agree its an uncomfortable feeling to be pushed but if the course is packed and you're keeping up with the group in front of you then you shouldn't worry about what he's doing behind you as long as he doesn't hit into you.

And as a single riding alone, you are going to be pushing people if you don't slow your pace to match the course. He could take extra putts, practice his chipping, whatever. But I know that that would be a huge imposition for some people, to be considerate of others, and they would rather get into verbal confrontations, etc, than be considerate of normal human feelings that their fellow humans have built into their DNA about being pressed from behind when there is no place to go in front.

[Golfingdad]

Once again. we are talking about a single, riding alone, on a course that is full of groups. He is far faster than any group, he should expect that his pace is going to far outstrip every group on the course, and there is nobody pressing from behind. So by playing balls to the wall full speed ahead, constantly ready golf, and running into group after group, he is not being in any way discourteous to the many other golfers he runs into and presses?

"This is a result of my inability to deal repeatedly with the stares back and several verbal confrontations I've had." - Hatchman

There is an old saying, "You run into one jerk today, he's a jerk, you run into several, you're the jerk."

BTW, All I have ever said is that the practice swings on the part of the single riding alone not being pressed from behind in any way, are a sign of impatience, not a crime against golf. I think you guys don't know what impatience means.

I get what you're saying.  And I'm assuming you're referring to those situations where it might be a par 5 or a short par 4 and the guy (or guys - groups do this too, not just singles) is only 50-80 yards behind you and being deliberate in his actions.  With groups its even worse, because all of them are acting like they're ready to hit and that you are the one preventing it - not the 2 groups on every hole ahead of you through to the 18th hole.

The analogy would be the guy who is tailgating you in 30 mph freeway traffic anxiously trying to piss you off for going so slow.  If he would just have a little courtesy and awareness , then he'd see that there is nowhere for you to go.  So he should back the eff off and or slow the eff down.  There is nothing you can do about it.  Next time don't drive during rush hour on a busy freeway, you dumbass.

[k-troop]

And as a single riding alone, you are going to be pushing people if you don't slow your pace to match the course. He could take extra putts, practice his chipping, whatever. But I know that that would be a huge imposition for some people, to be considerate of others, and they would rather get into verbal confrontations, etc, than be considerate of normal human feelings that their fellow humans have built into their DNA about being pressed from behind when there is no place to go in front.

You are the only person who has responded in this thread who feels pressed by this guy. The consensus view is that him being ready to hit when you clear the green is good etiquette, and it's completely normal--even desirable--for golfers to take practice swings (go figure). Essentially you're saying you want him to take a bunch of practice shots on the previous hole because him doing normal golf things and playing at a normal pace for a single makes you antsy. And he's a dick for not doing that.

[Moppy]

You are the only person who has responded in this thread who feels pressed by this guy. The consensus view is that him being ready to hit when you clear the green is good etiquette, and it's completely normal--even desirable--for golfers to take practice swings (go figure).

Essentially you're saying you want him to take a bunch of practice shots on the previous hole because him doing normal golf things and playing at a normal pace for a single makes you antsy. And he's a dick for not doing that.

I am actually not the only one on this thread who feels that way, if you read it.  And even people just mentioned in this thread, like perhaps the "several" people one poster has gotten into verbal altercations with or suffered their heated stares.

Ultimately, I don't care. I let people play through even when there is no room in front of me. I have said that several times, just like a let a car pass me who presses me on the rear bumper because I left a car length in front to avoid a rear end collision should a moose walk onto the highway. They are the ones who have to live with themselves is what I always say.

[Aflighter]

I understand what hes saying.It makes you feel like they are pushing and anxious to hit thinking your the cause of backup.Personally I just sit in cart waiting conserving energy if everyone is backed up.If there is slow group in front playing slow then yes ill get out dtand swing, lean on club as if hey hurry up but it doesnt really do any good because slow folks are slow.

[Moppy]

I understand what hes saying.It makes you feel like they are pushing and anxious to hit thinking your the cause of backup.Personally I just sit in cart waiting conserving energy if everyone is backed up.If there is slow group in front playing slow then yes ill get out dtand swing, lean on club as if hey hurry up but it doesnt really do any good because slow folks are slow.

Exactly, and I didn't even say swinging the club to keep loose. I specifically said stepping up to their ball and taking practice swings.

How many practice swings do you guys take, anyway? A dozen? I thought you were fast players! You can't get in your full complement of practice swings while I replace the flag and we walk off the green?

[Golfingdad]

Personally I just sit in cart waiting conserving energy if everyone is backed up.

Right.  The very first thing I do when I find myself waiting for the group in front of me is to look in front of them.  It's easy to find out real quick if they are slow or if the course is slow.  If it's them, then, yeah, I'll break out the deliberate yet passive-aggressive "hey look slowpokes, I'm ready to hit so perhaps you could let me/us through or speed up" behavior.

But if it's clear that it's not them, then why am I wasting my energy trying to be a dick to the guy in front of me who isn't causing any of my discomfort.  Might as well, sit back, relax, and make the best of the situation.

[Pretzel]

If you insist on being so hypersensitive to the tiniest infraction against your need to speed around the course. Don't wonder why people get sick of impatient players zipping through the course without regard for others.

I'm not being hypersensitive. I literally threw your words right back at you, with a slight twist. I would argue that the person who's "rushed" because someone makes practice swings while they putt is the hypersensitive one.

And as a single riding alone, you are going to be pushing people if you don't slow your pace to match the course. He could take extra putts, practice his chipping, whatever. But I know that that would be a huge imposition for some people, to be considerate of others, and they would rather get into verbal confrontations, etc, than be considerate of normal human feelings that their fellow humans have built into their DNA about being pressed from behind when there is no place to go in front.

What if those practice swings are how he is slowing his pace to the course. I don't see why it's so horrible for a guy to be ready to hit when you leave so long as he's not hitting into you. You're not being rushed anywhere but your head in that scenario.

Having been in the position you describe (single behind my group, backed up course, single taking practice swings), I disagree that humans have it "built into their DNA" to feel pressured in such a situation. It's merely you feeling pressured and that's nobody's fault but your own.

[David in FL]

I am genuinely curious as to why you say this?  This course is difficult and beautiful. People don't go there hoping to squeeze in a 3-hour round, they expect 4.5 hours, and that is an honest pace for a foursome on the course. My brother and I walked it last weekend, we were only a twosome and we had the first tee time of the day. It took us the full 4.5 hours to play and we didn't waste time, but we didn't rush either. I have played this course many times and never once have I felt rushed, but I have also never felt slowed by another group. 15 minutes per hole on average.

If it took you 4:30, as a two-some, with no one holding you up, and the course not only accepts it, but actively promotes it, you've answered the question for me. I play golf to play golf. Not for the view, or to commune with nature. I enjoy a beautiful, pristine course as much as the next guy, but I'm still there for the golf. [quote name="Golfingdad" url="/t/83251/rushing-because-of-faster-players-behind/378#post_1181350"]Right.  The very first thing I do when I find myself waiting for the group in front of me is to look in front of them.  It's easy to find out real quick if they are slow or if the course is slow. If it's them, then, yeah, I'll break out the deliberate yet passive-aggressive "hey look slowpokes, I'm ready to hit so perhaps you could let me/us through or speed up" behavior. But if it's clear that it's not them, then why am I wasting my energy trying to be a dick to the guy in front of me who isn't causing any of my discomfort. Might as well, sit back, relax, and make the best of the situation. [/quote] Agree completely with both points.

[Hatchman]

I lean now more to taking etiquette too far I suppose. This is a result of my inability to deal repeatedly with the stares back and several verbal confrontations I've had. Better safe than sorry, with my better controlled temper now is to sit back and wait for the high spot on the track and zip past them on the turn, so to speak.

Boy, what did I miss while out practicing? I think @Moppy may have misstated and perhaps interjected his feelings again saying "heated" stares. Can't find it anywhere in my post. The stares are from the let me get personal too then "pace police" who we hit unintentionally into acuractly from some of the shorter tee boxes that come close to the greens not them. They don't like carts driving up so close. Guess I should go by Walmart on the way. I am certainly not going to lay up to 150 just because. I'm out there working hard on my game of driving accuracy. Can't have a single and the group behind on the same tee box unless we are going to pair up. Had a few yesterday fairly close to the green. Heaven forbid. My tournament buddy tuning up for tomorrow drove a green, I was just in front, this is how stares and words develop. Should we wait totally? Guess we should tee off first at 0600, can't CR took that time :-P

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

We proceeded to wait on every shot on the back 9, and the ranger wouldn't even say anything to them because there were technically "on time", even though they were failing to keep up with the several foursomes in front of them.  Aside from them the course was easily playing at a 4 hour pace, yet we played to 4:20 with foursomes backing up behind us.

The moral is that just because you are "on pace" doesn't mean that you are playing to the course flow for a given day, and dogged adherence to an arbitrary number doesn't make you right, even if the course sees it as correct by their policy.  If they had let us play through we'd have finished in under 4 hours despite being a twosome following several foursomes.  All we were expecting is that they keep up with the course flow.  Their failing to do that caused a backup for a half dozen groups behind us too.

The lesson they were really giving that new player was entitlement, not etiquette.

That should have happened after six or something on an empty course of they should have waved you though the minute they saw you. Those guys were certifiable jerks.

The thing is it wasn't an empty course and there wasn't any problem until they started with the lessons on the back 9.  They opened up a hole and a half gap by the time they got to #13, then proceeded to continue to screw around for the next 6 holes.  I played again today, same full (mostly foursomes with a few threesomes) course in 4 hours flat - very little waiting, mostly on a couple of par 5 holes that are reachable for some players.

[Braivo]

If it took you 4:30, as a two-some, with no one holding you up, and the course not only accepts it, but actively promotes it, you've answered the question for me.

I play golf to play golf. Not for the view, or to commune with nature. I enjoy a beautiful, pristine course as much as the next guy, but I'm still there for the golf.

Agree completely with both points.

I don't see how it is a problem to expect a 4:30 round of golf. The course wants everyone who comes to expect and keep a 4:30 pace. As this thread would indicate, people get just as frustrated being "pressed" by fast golfers as they do by being held up by slow golfers. This course eliminates both problems by expecting and enforcing a 4:30 pace. There is no expectation that you will finish faster, but also a near guarantee that it won't take longer. You pay good money and get to play a fun, challenging course without any worries.

It takes 4:30 to play because it is challenging and requires a great deal of strategy, not because we are enjoying the view. The greens are lightning fast and we take our time to play them well and line up putts. My brother and I played ready golf and don't waste time and it still took 4:30.

[SavvySwede]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

If it took you 4:30, as a two-some, with no one holding you up, and the course not only accepts it, but actively promotes it, you've answered the question for me.

I play golf to play golf. Not for the view, or to commune with nature. I enjoy a beautiful, pristine course as much as the next guy, but I'm still there for the golf.

Agree completely with both points.

I don't see how it is a problem to expect a 4:30 round of golf. The course wants everyone who comes to expect and keep a 4:30 pace. As this thread would indicate, people get just as frustrated being "pressed" by fast golfers as they do by being held up by slow golfers. This course eliminates both problems by expecting and enforcing a 4:30 pace. There is no expectation that you will finish faster, but also a near guarantee that it won't take longer. You pay good money and get to play a fun, challenging course without any worries.

It takes 4:30 to play because it is challenging and requires a great deal of strategy, not because we are enjoying the view. The greens are lightning fast and we take our time to play them well and line up putts. My brother and I played ready golf and don't waste time and it still took 4:30.

If there wasn't anyone in front holding you up then you definitely wasted time. The pace of play listed on the card is for a foursome on a busy weekend or a large outing.

[Braivo]

If there wasn't anyone in front holding you up then you definitely wasted time. The pace of play listed on the card is for a foursome on a busy weekend or a large outing.

We were walking, carrying our bags, which included several long stretches between holes that took a few min to walk. My point is that an enjoyable round of golf doesn't have to involve dealing with slow, or fast, players. This course solved that by setting expectations. It seems as though everyone is in such a hurry all the time, they want to golf, but they want to minimize the time commitment. I get it. But this particular course has set expectations differently. You don't show up expecting to tee off early and squeeze a round in in three hours. The expectation is you will tee off exactly on time, make the turn at 2:15 and finish at 4:30. Clearly it works as it is jam packed for premium $ in a blue collar town. There is a certain draw to slowing down and treating the game as an escape from our busy lives, yet most people treat it just like a busy supermarket, jockeying for the shortest line to save a few minutes. The beauty comes from zoning out distractions and being completely engrossed in your game. That's where I find the greatest enjoyment. That's why I play. Turning around and seeing a single in a cart waiting for me at every hole is a break from that, a distraction.

[Duff McGee]

We were walking, carrying our bags, which included several long stretches between holes that took a few min to walk. My point is that an enjoyable round of golf doesn't have to involve dealing with slow, or fast, players. This course solved that by setting expectations. It seems as though everyone is in such a hurry all the time, they want to golf, but they want to minimize the time commitment. I get it. But this particular course has set expectations differently. You don't show up expecting to tee off early and squeeze a round in in three hours. The expectation is you will tee off exactly on time, make the turn at 2:15 and finish at 4:30. Clearly it works as it is jam packed for premium $ in a blue collar town. There is a certain draw to slowing down and treating the game as an escape from our busy lives, yet most people treat it just like a busy supermarket, jockeying for the shortest line to save a few minutes. The beauty comes from zoning out distractions and being completely engrossed in your game. That's where I find the greatest enjoyment. That's why I play. Turning around and seeing a single in a cart waiting for me at every hole is a break from that, a distraction.

Almost all courses have this....not sure why you think this is unique....