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Raymond Floyd upset at Hall of Fame for inducting 'guys who don't belong'

post #1 of 74
Thread Starter 

Raymond Floyd, a four-time major winner and World Golf Hall of Fame member since 1989, believes that the Hall of Fame is inducting players undeserving of the honor.

“The bar has been lowered,” Floyd said in the March issue of Golf Magazine. “Guys get voted into the Hall of Fame who don’t belong, who lack the numbers. I’m very upset at the Hall of Fame for that. It’s not fair to the people who went in early.”

Floyd didn't mention names, but the 2013 Hall of Fame class includes Fred Couples, who has won only one major (the 1992 Masters), and Colin Montgomerie, who has never won a major.

Quote:

Who has been elected to the Hall who doesn’t deserve it?

Just look at the inductees over the last six, eight, 10 years. Some years, I don’t even vote because the names are not worthy of induction. One major should not get you into the Hall of Fame—maybe one major and 40 wins. I’m not gonna pick a guy with one major and 11 wins.

Fred Couples has one major and 15 Tour wins, and Colin Montgomerie never won a major, and they’ll be enshrined this year. It sounds like they didn’t get your vote.

I’ll just say that you should have at least two majors. At least! Wow, there are guys in there that it’s a joke. It takes integrity away from the term “Hall of Fame.” I’m very upset at the Hall of Fame.

 

And here is Freddy's opinion on Floyd's comments

 

 

Quote:
“I can understand Raymond's point,” Couples said. “Andy North won two majors. I look at Andy North as an unbelievable player. Anyone who can win a major, let alone two, and only have three wins, and I know John Daly has won two majors; I don't know if he's ever going to get in the Hall of Fame. But if he does, I'm not going to sit there and make a comment on it. I think it's important that you win enough tournaments. I've only won 15 times. It's not like I've won 20. I don't even know what the criteria is.”
post #2 of 74

I agree with Floyd....Im not only sick and tired of gary player telling me what I MUST do if I want to ''love the game of golf'', but I also chuckle when I see the ridiculousness of a "Hall of Fame" for this sport....Is  EVERYONE who has ever won a tournament inducted ?..... Exactly what is the criteria?

 

The bar for entry is set pretty low.   Its not taken seriously by anyone , except the inductee's

 

BTW they need to get a different spokesperson than that overly dramatic, shameless, old, self promoter  gary player.

post #3 of 74

Ray is just mad because Freddy beat him in that 92 Master's. b2_tongue.gif  

 

While Couples may not have the win totals I do think you have to look at his total body of work; Vardon trophies, Byron Nelson awards, former World #1, and his recent contribution as President's Cup captain, all add to his Hall of Fame credentials.

post #4 of 74

Ray isn't the first to question the inductees merits as HOF'ers.  We here on TST had a thread about it a few months back.  I think he's right, you just shouldn't induct someone for the sake of it. 

 

IMO Freddie didn't have the numbers to get in either.  He had the potential, but for numerous reasons he didn't win enough Majors or regular tournaments to justify the honor.   I like Phil a lot but he should have not been inducted until he retired from the PGA Tour. 

post #5 of 74

I agree with the owner of The Stare.

post #6 of 74
Floyd isn't known for thinking his comments through before he makes them. That's all ill say.
post #7 of 74

The difference between winning a major and not winning a major can be as slight as...oh, I don't know...pulling a weak 7 iron into a lake during the playoff?

 

I think what matters is a consistently spectacular career over a sustained period of time - I'd argue that Colin Montgomerie had just that. Eight European Order of Merit wins (7 of them consecutive), his sparkling Ryder Cup record...I think Monty won his place in the Hall of Fame.

post #8 of 74
If you look at the list, you can tell it doesn't have a lot to do with playing good golf.
post #9 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph View Post

If you look at the list, you can tell it doesn't have a lot to do with playing good golf.


I agree. Contrast the World Golf HOF with Major League Baseball. It's extremely hard to get into the baseball HOF (too hard IMO because the writers who vote are idiots) but too easy to get into the Golf HOF. I love Fred Couples but his inclusion among others makes the Hall more honorary than earned.

post #10 of 74

Each Hall of Fame is faced with the fact that the original inductees were the absolute greats of the game. How can the modern baseball players stack up against Ty Cobb or Babe Ruth?  How can the modern golfer (except Woods) compare to the likes of Jones, Nelson and Hogan?

 

All Hall of Fames have the same problem.  How do they remain relevant (and convince tourists to visit their establishment) if they don't induct someone every year? Thus, they have to sometimes lower their standards to find someone to induct.

post #11 of 74

Not that Freddy or Colin aren't deserving but I agree that it seems to easy. Has to be a better way to work out the time frame and a better idea on what qualifications should be considered.

post #12 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-troop View Post

Floyd isn't known for thinking his comments through before he makes them. That's all ill say.

 

So, basically, nothing except to slightly bash Ray? Okay.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScouseJohnny View Post

I think what matters is a consistently spectacular career over a sustained period of time - I'd argue that Colin Montgomerie had just that. Eight European Order of Merit wins (7 of them consecutive), his sparkling Ryder Cup record...I think Monty won his place in the Hall of Fame.

 

Colin never won a single event in the United States. He'd be close in my book but would definitely not make it into the HOF. Not enough performances against the top players. No U.S. wins, no major victories.

 

I think two majors should be a minimum. I'd have not voted Freddie in.

 

P.S. Ray and Freddie get along well, played well in Ryder Cups together, and like each other.

post #13 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

Ray isn't the first to question the inductees merits as HOF'ers.  We here on TST had a thread about it a few months back.  I think he's right, you just shouldn't induct someone for the sake of it. 

 

IMO Freddie didn't have the numbers to get in either.  He had the potential, but for numerous reasons he didn't win enough Majors or regular tournaments to justify the honor.   I like Phil a lot but he should have not been inducted until he retired from the PGA Tour. 

 

Fully agree with both comments.  I love to watch Couples - he's been one of my favorites for years and he may be more recognizable with weekend players, and even with non golfers, than many pros, but his playing credentials are borderline at best.  And no way you should even be considered until you at least semi-retire (i.e reach age 50) from the regular Tour.  In MLB and the NFL, you have to be out of the game for at least 5 years before your name goes in the hat.  Even a player like John Elway who was a guaranteed shoo-in had to wait.  Golfers usually play for longer than players in other sports, so maybe a waiting period would be a bit too much, but at least reach Champion's Tour age.

post #14 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

So, basically, nothing except to slightly bash Ray? Okay.

 

 

I figured I could make my point without explicitly pointing out that Ray (effectively) called Tiger an unwelcome n-word after the 97 Masters.  I don't take anything he says seriously.

 

Edit:  OMG I just realized I had a massive brain fart--that was Fuzz.  I emphatically retract my previous statement.

post #15 of 74

I would hate to be responsible for picking players for the golf hall of fame. Golf has only one winner per week, but a lot of guys can play really well. In team sports, a player can have great stats, but never be on a winning team. Floyd has a valid point, but mabye the HOF has different criteria for choosing players.

post #16 of 74
Thought occurs to me: why does the women's side of golf have much more stringent requirements for HOF? It used to be two majors and then some additional requirements; now it's one (or a Vare Trophy, or player of the year) and still some other requirements. The men... just have to be eligible and then voted in. There's a minimum age, 10 year on the PGA Tour, and 10 wins (or two of the majors + Players').

Steve Elkington is eligible, as are Steve Stricker, Justin Leonard and Kenny Perry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-troop View Post

I figured I could make my point without explicitly pointing out that Ray (effectively) called Tiger an unwelcome n-word after the 97 Masters.  I don't take anything he says seriously.

Edit:  OMG I just realized I had a massive brain fart--that was Fuzz.  I emphatically retract my previous statement.

Except... that isn't really what Fuzzy said. He made a stupid joke about food (referencing racial stereotypes on food preferences). What he said was certainly stupid and probably insensitive, but there's a big difference between a stupid joke and the ways the incident is sometimes reported.

Tiger accepted the apology and had lunch with him shortly thereafter. Earl even joked about the comment in an interview in 2004.

But anyway, back to Ray and the HOF.
post #17 of 74

I cant exactly disagree with Floyd.  Theres some golfers in the HOF who dont belong.  Some might contend that today's golfers cant possibly compare to greats like Hogan, Sned, Jones or Nicklaus but at what point does adding people just to add them cheapen what it means to be in the HOF?

post #18 of 74

Freddy gets into the All Time Coolest Guy Ever to Play Golf HOF, but in the regular HOF his record is not stellar. What is stellar is his appeal and how many people he influenced along the way. They must be giving style points in which he could be winning. 

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