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Is Distance Really That Important for Amateurs?


FireDragon76
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I read Moneygolf and other "golfmetrics" type stuff that seems to be pushing distance over accuracy but when I played golf last time, my playing partners had good distance, seemed to have a decent swing but kept hitting out into the woods.  And the Japanese businessmen behind us did the same thing.   I didn't drive the ball very far at all, taking 3-4 shots to get to an approach to the green but I only lost two balls during 9 holes.   If the scoring were "for real", all the lost balls would be serious penalties and my score might have been a lot better in comparison.

I took my driver out for most of the tee shots but some of my worst shots were with my driver (and the only shots where I lost the ball) - now I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just be using a 5 wood or even my 3 or 4 hybrid off the tee, leave the driver at home, and work on my short game and putting.   It just seems to me the short game is the area I could make big improvements to my score with a lot less effort, despite all I have read about the importance of distance.

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I read Moneygolf and other "golfmetrics" type stuff that seems to be pushing distance over accuracy but when I played golf last time, my playing partners had good distance, seemed to have a decent swing but kept hitting out into the woods.  And the Japanese businessmen behind us did the same thing.   I didn't drive the ball very far at all, taking 3-4 shots to get to an approach to the green but I only lost two balls during 9 holes.   If the scoring were "for real", all the lost balls would be serious penalties and my score might have been a lot better in comparison.

I took my driver out for most of the tee shots but some of my worst shots were with my driver (and the only shots where I lost the ball) - now I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just be using a 5 wood or even my 3 or 4 hybrid off the tee, leave the driver at home, and work on my short game and putting.   It just seems to me the short game is the area I could make big improvements to my score with a lot less effort, despite all I have read about the importance of distance.

For the best explanation, read:

http://lowestscorewins.com/

But basically, you want to be a close to the hole off the tee as possible while not putting yourself into a penalty.  Short game can help a bit, but only when you are close to the hole .  So it is better to hit driver and be in the rough at 130 yards, than hit 5 wood and be in the fairway at 170 yards.  Your chance of parring the hole increases dramatically the closer you get to the hole.

Scott

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I read Moneygolf and other "golfmetrics" type stuff that seems to be pushing distance over accuracy but when I played golf last time, my playing partners had good distance, seemed to have a decent swing but kept hitting out into the woods.  And the Japanese businessmen behind us did the same thing.   I didn't drive the ball very far at all, taking 3-4 shots to get to an approach to the green but I only lost two balls during 9 holes.   If the scoring were "for real", all the lost balls would be serious penalties and my score might have been a lot better in comparison.

I took my driver out for most of the tee shots but some of my worst shots were with my driver (and the only shots where I lost the ball) - now I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just be using a 5 wood or even my 3 or 4 hybrid off the tee, leave the driver at home, and work on my short game and putting.   It just seems to me the short game is the area I could make big improvements to my score with a lot less effort, despite all I have read about the importance of distance.

In the short term, and while "you're working" on your driver it isn't a bad idea to put it away.  There is no fame to be gained by continually playing out of the woods or re-teeing the ball after hitting it OB!  You might also see some better than usual scores, however you are capped in terms of how low you can actually go.

Dedicate your time towards getting your driver to the point where it is not getting you into the woods or OB and that will be the only way to see long and lasting good scores!  As mentioned above, you are better off closer and in the rough than 30-40 yards out further but in the fairway!

:adams: / :tmade: / :edel: / :aimpoint: / :ecco: / :bushnell: / :gamegolf: / 

Eyad

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I read Moneygolf and other "golfmetrics" type stuff that seems to be pushing distance over accuracy but when I played golf last time, my playing partners had good distance, seemed to have a decent swing but kept hitting out into the woods.  And the Japanese businessmen behind us did the same thing.   I didn't drive the ball very far at all, taking 3-4 shots to get to an approach to the green but I only lost two balls during 9 holes.   If the scoring were "for real", all the lost balls would be serious penalties and my score might have been a lot better in comparison.   I took my driver out for most of the tee shots but some of my worst shots were with my driver (and the only shots where I lost the ball) - now I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just be using a 5 wood or even my 3 or 4 hybrid off the tee, leave the driver at home, and work on my short game and putting.   It just seems to me the short game is the area I could make big improvements to my score with a lot less effort, despite all I have read about the importance of distance.

No, you're mistaken about this. If your worst shots are with the driver, the solution is not to abandon the driver, it is to learn how to hit it. If you are taking four shots to reach the green on a par four, you will virtually never make par and your most frequent score will be double bogey. Even if your short game was flawless you'd be making bogey. Meanwhile, the guy who can hit his driver properly is taking a six or seven iron to the green and giving himself a decent chance of a par. Obviously, hitting the ball a mile doesn't help if you have no idea where it will end up. And if you can hit a 5W reasonably well but are struggling with e driver, then certainly take that club off the tee while you are sorting yourself out. But can you really hit the 5W well? If so, it's hard to see why it would take you four shots to reach the green.

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The more I practise, the luckier I hope to get.

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I read Moneygolf and other "golfmetrics" type stuff that seems to be pushing distance over accuracy but when I played golf last time, my playing partners had good distance, seemed to have a decent swing but kept hitting out into the woods.  And the Japanese businessmen behind us did the same thing.   I didn't drive the ball very far at all, taking 3-4 shots to get to an approach to the green but I only lost two balls during 9 holes.   If the scoring were "for real", all the lost balls would be serious penalties and my score might have been a lot better in comparison.

I took my driver out for most of the tee shots but some of my worst shots were with my driver (and the only shots where I lost the ball) - now I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just be using a 5 wood or even my 3 or 4 hybrid off the tee, leave the driver at home, and work on my short game and putting.   It just seems to me the short game is the area I could make big improvements to my score with a lot less effort, despite all I have read about the importance of distance.

Guidelines and recommendations are not mandates, you have to apply them to your ability and the courses you play.  If you're playing a course with really tight fairways and a lot of out of bounds, trees or water hazards then you're probably better off clubbing down and keeping the ball in play.  If your home course is wide open then going for distance would be more attractive.

IMO, club selection off the tee (especially amateurs) should be based on the particular hole you're playing, your accuracy with driver, distance to the hole, hazards, width of fairway and penalty for missing fairway.  Pro's have 100's of people to track down their mishits into woods so that has to factor in as well.

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Joe Paradiso

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The best players not only hit their drivers far, but more accurately.

Often "distance" can come first, and it's important, but it's also kind of something you have or don't have, so more players can be pretty darn long pretty early on. When they learn to control it, they drop their scores.

280 in the rough is better than 240 in the fairway, but anything in the trees is probably not better than much in the rough OR fairway.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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I don't know what's best for most amateurs, but given the choice, I would take accuracy over distance every time. That's assuming that swinging for accuracy does not rob me of several 10s of yards. By saying that, I would not want to be 170 yards, and in the fairway, as apposed 250 yards, and just off the fairway on a 400 yard par 4. To my way of thinking accuracy is better if I am only losing less than 25 yards off the tee, or <10 yards on my approach shots. I swing a 10.5 driver pretty well up to 240 yards. I can get 260+ yards with it, but my second shots are not as easy as they are at 240 yards. In my short game, accuracy is much more important, as long as my distance control is adequate. At my age, and physical health, I am not going to be scaring par very much as it is. These two reasons are why I put more stock in accuracy.

A golfer needs to be able to swing a driver, or at the very least, a 2 wood to be able to shoot the lowest scores they are capable of. A golfer not using one, or both of those clubs will cost themselves some strokes. Now if it takes learning to swing a 3W, or even a 5W first, to get to swinging the driver correctly, there is nothing wrong with that.

I read an article by Harvey Penick who stated distance was paramount as long as accuracy eventually followed. He would have his students swinging for all they were worth, while telling them accuracy would eventually come with the distance. I have no doubt he was quite right in that part of his teachings. Of course his students were getting some great, quality, usually long term  instruction, where as most amateurs are trying find swing answers on their own.

Today's pros seem to go more for distance over accuracy, but as pros, they have great recovery shots, which is something most amateurs don't have. It's two different games where (most) amateurs and professionals are concerned.

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I just prefer playing from the fairway - makes the game more enjoyable.      We've discussed this before - totally depends on how rough the rough is.    The rough on the lower end pubic courses I play is to be avoided at all costs, so I've developed a smooth tempo (fairly easy) swing ... just seems to work for the conditions I play.     I'm not all that short - if I were to average things - I'd estimate I typically get 235-250 on my drives - just focus on smooth tempo backswing and same tempo through the transition.    OP - you don't have to "swing hard" to hit the ball a respectable distance - just focus on clean contact, distance will come.    Also, choke up on that driver (2-3 inches) for now - make it the same effective length as your fairway or long hybrid - once you get that down and are making consistent contact, work on gripping it all the way down.

John

Fav LT Quote ... "you can talk to a fade, but a hook won't listen"

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I really think it depends on the tournament. For example, the last event I won was played at 6200 yards and it was just a one day. It was actually set up so that if you played aggressive you could get somewhat close to the green with a drive. But here was the trick, the pins were tucked and greens were fast. Try playing a half wedge shot out of thick rough with a front pin location right over a bunker on firm, fast greens. No thanks. I won by 3 strokes(69) because I was smart enough to hit 4 iron off the tee while everyone is trying to bomb drives. So I am hitting full wedge shots into the green and I hit 13 GIR. I was on two par 5's in two but I three putted both because the pins were crazy.

On the other side I have played a 7200 yard par 70 that plays SUPER long and you cannot hit an iron of the tee. You have to be able to place your drive in the fairway to get the 30 yards of roll you are looking for or you are still way out. There, I think distance matters. That was a pro event though and a lot of times amateur events you can get away with not as much distance. Course management is more important than distance IMO. If you can hit it 260 which is not very long then you can get home in two. If you can get up and down out of a trash can you can hit a hybrid 210 and be next to the green just be able to get it all up and down, take your par, and move to the next hole.

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I took my driver out for most of the tee shots but some of my worst shots were with my driver (and the only shots where I lost the ball) - now I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just be using a 5 wood or even my 3 or 4 hybrid off the tee, leave the driver at home, and work on my short game and putting.   It just seems to me the short game is the area I could make big improvements to my score with a lot less effort, despite all I have read about the importance of distance.

You might see some short term improvement, but the ceiling would be low. It's unlikely you'll ever play to scratch if you drive the ball 180, for example, no matter how straight you hit it. I'm wild off the tee and even I don't hit the ball in the trees or OB more than 3-4 times a round. Even if I had to take S&D; on all those mis-hits, that only amounts to 8 strokes. That's worst case scenario. Most times you hit into a water hazard or have a chance to punch out, so you wouldn't lose that many strokes at all. Being closer on approaches is worth a lot more than that.

Bill

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I don't know what's best for most amateurs, but given the choice, I would take accuracy over distance every time. That's assuming that swinging for accuracy does not rob me of several 10s of yards. By saying that, I would not want to be 170 yards, and in the fairway, as apposed 250 yards, and just off the fairway on a 400 yard par 4. To my way of thinking accuracy is better if I am only losing less than 25 yards off the tee, or <10 yards on my approach shots. I swing a 10.5 driver pretty well up to 240 yards. I can get 260+ yards with it, but my second shots are not as easy as they are at 240 yards.

Longer hitters are also more accurate, by and large. You're creating somewhat of an unlikely scenario by how much you're dropping or increasing the accuracy and distance.

In other words, a 275-yard guy hits 95% of his drives within +/- 3° let's say. The 240-yard guy is more likely to hit his drives within only about +/- 4°. The 275-yard guy could gear down with a 3W or 5W to hit the ball 240… and still be more accurate. Maybe even +/- 2.5° because it's a shorter, higher lofted club.

Yet how we think of "accuracy" more often is that the 240-yard guy hits more fairways. But that's only because hits the ball shorter, so those balls toward the edge of his accuracy probabilities stay in the fairway, while the guy hitting it 35 yards farther creeps outside the edge of the fairway a bit more often, even if he's more accurate.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Longer hitters are also more accurate, by and large. You're creating somewhat of an unlikely scenario by how much you're dropping or increasing the accuracy and distance.

In other words, a 275-yard guy hits 95% of his drives within +/- 3° let's say. The 240-yard guy is more likely to hit his drives within only about +/- 4°. The 275-yard guy could gear down with a 3W or 5W to hit the ball 240… and still be more accurate. Maybe even +/- 2.5° because it's a shorter, higher lofted club.

Yet how we think of "accuracy" more often is that the 240-yard guy hits more fairways. But that's only because hits the ball shorter, so those balls toward the edge of his accuracy probabilities stay in the fairway, while the guy hitting it 35 yards farther creeps outside the edge of the fairway a bit more often, even if he's more accurate.

But a 275 guy might hit one off line and only carry it 245-250 into the rough where it stops abruptly. Where a 260 guy might hit it in the fairway and it runs out a tad longer.. I think that a 275 carry is a long way to carry. I can hit a drive in the rough 240 and it just stops and then I can hit my 4 iron and have it roll out to 240 in the fairway. At that point I am playing the same distance but one is in the fairway. I see your point, but taking risk out of play is a huge part of scoring well IMO. Also, you are going to have less spin into the green and less control. I think that it works both ways off the tee. Even the pros aren't hitting driver every single shot. In the US Open do you want 120 yards out of the thick stuff or do you want 155 out of the fairway?

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A 440 yard par 4, I'm playing it as a short par 5 because I can't reach it.  That's frustrating, I want to play the course the way it was designed.  Distance is important, at least to me.

Womens tees?  What guy does that when there with 3 other chest thumping guy friend?  I've never seen it.

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But a 275 guy might hit one off line and only carry it 245-250 into the rough where it stops abruptly. Where a 260 guy might hit it in the fairway and it runs out a tad longer.. I think that a 275 carry is a long way to carry. I can hit a drive in the rough 240 and it just stops and then I can hit my 4 iron and have it roll out to 240 in the fairway. At that point I am playing the same distance but one is in the fairway. I see your point, but taking risk out of play is a huge part of scoring well IMO. Also, you are going to have less spin into the green and less control. I think that it works both ways off the tee. Even the pros aren't hitting driver every single shot. In the US Open do you want 120 yards out of the thick stuff or do you want 155 out of the fairway?


That ventures too far into a weird realm of hypotheticals and exceptions. People cannot regularly hit 240-yard 4-irons, and there's little sense in pretending they can.

Longer hitters, by and large, are also more accurate. If you just look at fairways hit, though, the 240/4% guy might hit more fairways than the 275/3% guy.

People tend to exaggerate far more often to make their cases than what you see in reality.

This is what you'd see in reality:

1) Guy hits 250-yard tee shots with +/-5° accuracy.

2) Guy hits 230-yard tee shots with his 3W but gains +/- 1° of accuracy only.

In that case, the 20 yards is more valuable than the extra degree of accuracy, per Broadie's book.

This is how people often try to argue this:

1) Guy hits 240-yard tee shots but is freakishly accurate*.

2) Guy would be dumb to take 20 extra yards over hitting it in the rough or trees every time.**

There are two things wrong with that.

* People over-estimate how accurate they are or could be with shorter tee shots, particularly in light of the fact that longer hitters are also more accurate.

** People assume that adding 20 yards (or whatever) suddenly means you're crazy wild off the tee and will never hit a fairway. In reality, if you look at fairway/rough/trees percentages, it'd be more like: 240 yards and 60/35/5 versus 260 yards with 50/43/7 or something.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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The best players not only hit their drivers far, but more accurately.

Often "distance" can come first, and it's important, but it's also kind of something you have or don't have, so more players can be pretty darn long pretty early on. When they learn to control it, they drop their scores.

280 in the rough is better than 240 in the fairway, but anything in the trees is probably not better than much in the rough OR fairway.

I have a vague recollection of a story about Nicklaus when he was a boy learning the game from Jack Grout.  Grout always encouraged him to hit it as far as he could because it was easier to add control to distance than to add distance to control.

Seemed to work out OK for him. ;-)

A 440 yard par 4, I'm playing it as a short par 5 because I can't reach it.  That's frustrating, I want to play the course the way it was designed.  Distance is important, at least to me.

Womens tees?  What guy does that when there with 3 other chest thumping guy friend?  I've never seen it.

Most courses I've played have a set of tees that does not have any, or at least not more than one, 440 yard par 4.  I avoid playing any set of tees where there are more than 2-3 holes that I have no chance of reaching in regulation, assuming good solid shots.

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

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I think the idea that giving up distance for accuracy makes people think they'll always hit their target, or very close to it. That's not really true. Would I give up 15-20 yards if I were sure that I'd hit my target every time? Sure, but that's no guarantee. The question/reasoning I use is, am I more accurate the closer I am? The answer to that question is invariably "Yes".

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That ventures too far into a weird realm of hypotheticals and exceptions. People cannot regularly hit 240-yard 4-irons, and there's little sense in pretending they can.

Longer hitters, by and large, are also more accurate. If you just look at fairways hit, though, the 240/4% guy might hit more fairways than the 275/3% guy.

People tend to exaggerate far more often to make their cases than what you see in reality.

This is what you'd see in reality:

1) Guy hits 250-yard tee shots with +/-5° accuracy.

2) Guy hits 230-yard tee shots with his 3W but gains +/- 1° of accuracy only.

In that case, the 20 yards is more valuable than the extra degree of accuracy, per Broadie's book.

This is how people often try to argue this:

1) Guy hits 240-yard tee shots but is freakishly accurate*.

2) Guy would be dumb to take 20 extra yards over hitting it in the rough or trees every time.**

There are two things wrong with that.

* People over-estimate how accurate they are or could be with shorter tee shots, particularly in light of the fact that longer hitters are also more accurate.

** People assume that adding 20 yards (or whatever) suddenly means you're crazy wild off the tee and will never hit a fairway. In reality, if you look at fairway/rough/trees percentages, it'd be more like: 240 yards and 60/35/5 versus 260 yards with 50/43/7 or something.

I agree that people assume that longer means wilder. My argument I guess is that the decision I make on the tee box has many more factors to do with conditions, course, situation than it does with trying to get as close to the green as possible. Why is that relevant? Because he asked can a shorter hitter do well as an amateur. My answer would be Yes and No. Depends on the course.

A person's swing speed shouldn't dictate their accuracy. I would argue that this goes both ways. I think there are plenty of short hitters who are very accurate and there are just as many longer hitters who are just as accurate. Swing speed shouldn't dictate accuracy? Just because your body can only swing 90 mph does make you less accurate? .

The 240 yard 4 iron is not carry.. you may only carry it 210 but since it is off the tee it will roll out more than it would if it were to land on a green. That is where I get 240 from.. maybe 230 then.

I compromised 30-50 yards off the tee and was still able to win by 3 strokes because I stuck to a game plan. It was a short course, I feel comfortable from 60-120 yards and that is where I put myself. Distance had no factor on doing well as an amateur because I was only hitting the ball 210-230 off the tee, where other guys were out there hitting 250-290 and scoring far worse.

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