LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[Vinsk]

13 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Imagine if LIV had done something with women's golf and not tried to upend the entire men's professional golf ecosystem.

Yeah, but the underlying issue of who LIV is run by still clouds whatever they think they’re doing. Many people would still have that issue even if they attempt to do something positive for women’s golf.

[DaveP043]

16 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

These courses have zero appeal to me.

I've played two of those courses, in Orlando and Trump DC (in Sterling VA), so there's at least a little interest for me.  

 

16 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

I'm not sure I give this much longer without some big changes.

We really don't know what the Saudis view as "success" for this ven3ture, so I wouldn't make any guesses as to how long it will last.  They're certainly not worried about making money, at least in the short term.  

[mdl]

9 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Another departure from LIV, this time the managing director, who is Saudi and the head of the Saudi Golf Federation. This will lead to Norman doing more. I do not understanding why elevating Greg Norman is a good idea at all, but it's happening.

https://www.si.com/golf/news/liv-golf-2023-schedule-greg-norman-elevated-role

And the full schedule is out:

https://www.si.com/golf/news/2023-liv-golf-league-schedule

These courses have zero appeal to me. And the big, season-ending event will take place in the middle of the night for American viewers. 

This has been mismanaged badly. I'm not sure I give this much longer without some big changes. Norman's only goal is to crush the PGA Tour, and it doesn't seem like that will happen. Imagine if LIV had done something with women's golf and not tried to upend the entire men's professional golf ecosystem.

Are women even allowed to play golf in the land of the house of Saud? Even if they are, the dudes in charge surely don't want to spend their money promoting servant/slave class (women) sports.

And as long as MBS thinks it's a good idea there is infinite money to keep LIV going. I won't watch but among golfers I've asked I'm in the minority. And I'm in Portland, where I assume even golfers are, on average, more liberal and thus more inclined to care about whether the league directly supports an evil dictatorship. 🤷🏼‍♂️ I think they've got a long runway left at minimum.

[ChetlovesMer]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

 I guess we'll find out eventually.

Maybe, maybe not.

Seems like everything is reported with a slant these days. Kind of worries me, to be truthful. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

We linked to that a few posts up, yeah.

Yeah thanks. I realized it after I posted it but by the time I got back to edit it I couldn't. 

[iacas]

Patrick Reed throws tee at Rory McIlroy in disgust after World No 1 appears to ignore American in Dubai

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Patrick Reed threw a tee at Rory McIlroy in disgust after the world number one appeared to ignore his efforts to say hello at the Emirates Golf Club, according to reports.

Reed stood near McIlroy a few seconds with the intention of saying hello but McIlroy did not even turn his head towards him.

Reed insisted in saluting McIlroy but after getting no response, he gave up and walked away but not before putting his hand in his pocket and throwing a tee in McIlroy’s direction in disgust.

The incident was the talk of the range and the tournament and comes after reports of tension during last year’s BMW International.

and

Before heading to Wentworth for the BMW PGA, McIlroy said: "I hate what it's doing to the game of golf. I hate it. I really do. Like it's going to be hard for me to stomach going to Wentworth in a couple of weeks' time and seeing 18 of them there. That just doesn't sit right with me.

[phillyk]

Are we losing sportsmanship and respect in all this? Be rivals all you want. But I don’t feel we should lose respect.

[dennyjones]

41 minutes ago, phillyk said:

Are we losing sportsmanship and respect in all this? Be rivals all you want. But I don’t feel we should lose respect.

We may be losing sportsmanship but respect is earned and lost easily.   PR thru his previous actions has lost respect of his piers.   I think a person can be sporting which is completely different than respect.    I guess we'd have to be Rory to know his intent.

[mcanadiens]

10 hours ago, dennyjones said:

I guess we'd have to be Rory to know his intent.

Some stuff I read this morning quote Rory as saying he did intentionally ignore Reed, but wasn't aware of the thrown tee until others told him about it.

Rory McIlroy defends blanking Patrick Reed in Dubai tee-throwing incident | Rory McIlroy | The Guardian

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Rory McIlroy has insisted he was well within his rights to ignore Patrick Reed after reports surfaced that the American had tossed a golf tee at the world No 1

 

[Indy-Archer]

On 1/23/2023 at 3:10 PM, mdl said:

Are women even allowed to play golf in the land of the house of Saud? Even if they are, the dudes in charge surely don't want to spend their money promoting servant/slave class (women) sports.

And as long as MBS thinks it's a good idea there is infinite money to keep LIV going. I won't watch but among golfers I've asked I'm in the minority. And I'm in Portland, where I assume even golfers are, on average, more liberal and thus more inclined to care about whether the league directly supports an evil dictatorship. 🤷🏼‍♂️ I think they've got a long runway left at minimum.

Do a search for internment camps and torture of muslims in China. Then look to see where most golf components come from. 

Kinda hard to see anyone taking the moral high ground by complaining about the Saudis. And don't get me wrong, I have absolutely NO affinity for the Saudis. We just have to watch where those fingers are pointing. Should also be boycotting Titleist, TM, Callaway, etc... China probably has the worst ongoing human rights record in history. 

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Indy-Archer said:

Do a search for internment camps and torture of muslims in China. Then look to see where most golf components come from. 

Kinda hard to see anyone taking the moral high ground by complaining about the Saudis. And don't get me wrong, I have absolutely NO affinity for the Saudis. We just have to watch where those fingers are pointing. Should also be boycotting Titleist, TM, Callaway, etc... China probably has the worst ongoing human rights record in history. 

Nope. Sorry. Big difference.

LIV is literally the Saudi government funding it directly. Titleist isn't funded directly by China or whatever. If we applied that strategy to everything, we wouldn't be able to do anything.

Big difference.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

6 hours ago, Indy-Archer said:

Do a search for internment camps and torture of muslims in China. Then look to see where most golf components come from. 

Kinda hard to see anyone taking the moral high ground by complaining about the Saudis. And don't get me wrong, I have absolutely NO affinity for the Saudis. We just have to watch where those fingers are pointing. Should also be boycotting Titleist, TM, Callaway, etc... China probably has the worst ongoing human rights record in history. 

That may be true in some ways and you'll get no argument from me about China and in some ways there are parallels to the Saudi's. However the Chinese aren't trying to polish poop like the Saudi's are with this sportswashing filth.  Plus murdering a journalist from a US company. Plus potential SA government operative ties to 9/11 attacks that was reported last year.

On top of that a government sponsored sports league with unlimited funds and no fiscal responsibility that is in direct competition with a self-funded, member organization like the PGAT.

 

Collectively that makes me loathe LIV leadership, its participants and anyone otherwise supporting it. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by BlackDiamondPar5

[mdl]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

8 hours ago, Indy-Archer said:

Do a search for internment camps and torture of muslims in China. Then look to see where most golf components come from. 

Kinda hard to see anyone taking the moral high ground by complaining about the Saudis. And don't get me wrong, I have absolutely NO affinity for the Saudis. We just have to watch where those fingers are pointing. Should also be boycotting Titleist, TM, Callaway, etc... China probably has the worst ongoing human rights record in history. 

Nope. Sorry. Big difference.

LIV is literally the Saudi government funding it directly. Titleist isn't funded directly by China or whatever. If we applied that strategy to everything, we wouldn't be able to do anything.

Big difference.

Beat me to it. This logic is so tiresome. Let's try applying it another way!

American urban design and geography makes driving a car a necessity for most. The Islamic Front gets a lot of their funds from stealing oil from pipelines and selling it on the black market. So you have to buy gas and you're already funding the Islamic Front. Thus living in America and sending donations directly to Islamic Front cells are morally equivalent! I'm so logical and smart!

[iacas]

Okay, also, this is f***ing nothing:

I can't believe anyone made a big deal out of that, or if that's what was the "talk of the range." That's nothing. Even if the tee was a "LIV Golf" tee or whatever.

Also, it's not like Patrick stood there for three minutes or anything.

The entire video is 12 seconds long, and includes him walking up and leaving.

[Vinsk]

55 minutes ago, iacas said:

I can't believe anyone made a big deal out of that

I get what you’re saying. But it’s pretty easy to believe. Media loves this stuff.

[GolfLug]

32 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I get what you’re saying. But it’s pretty easy to believe. Media loves this stuff.

Yeah, the articles made me picture an all out brawl. I mean, I so wanted it to.. 😂

[Vinsk]

So Reed has Rory served a subpoena on Christmas Eve then expects him to shake his hand on the course? Absolute douche bag. 

[Dinglegolf]

10 hours ago, iacas said:

Okay, also, this is f***ing nothing:

I can't believe anyone made a big deal out of that, or if that's what was the "talk of the range." That's nothing. Even if the tee was a "LIV Golf" tee or whatever.

Also, it's not like Patrick stood there for three minutes or anything.

The entire video is 12 seconds long, and includes him walking up and leaving.

 

This is as good as going as you are going get from golfers.  Hockey players drop the gloves then go toe-to-toe while balancing on skates; golfers give each other the silent treatment and act in a manner not befitting a "gentleman".