LIV Golf Tour (was "Alternative" Tours, Phil Cancelled)

[pganapathy]

On 2/3/2022 at 11:05 AM, iacas said:

Just financially (setting aside any moral shit for now), how does Bryson NOT take that deal if it's true? And that's just a signing bonus, I think.

The only way the big players don't take deals like this is if their views are about going down in history as all time greats who won so many majors.  A guy like Tiger or Rory would never go for it because they want their legacy to be so many majors and the best ever etc.

10 hours ago, dennyjones said:

Doesn't P. Reed play on two different tours?

Many guys play on multiple tours, PGA/Euro/Asian/Australasian/Sunshine etc., because all of them work together.  Essentially the Saudi tour will not work with these so it seems to be one or the other.

[Flushed]

Surely the players can't just look at the prize money and one-time joining fees. A host of sponsors won't want to get involved with them, they'll lose commercial appeal as they'll be playing a tour less viewed by fans, and overall, their sponsorship money will decrease materially.  

[Pretzel]

9 hours ago, Flushed said:

Surely the players can't just look at the prize money and one-time joining fees. A host of sponsors won't want to get involved with them, they'll lose commercial appeal as they'll be playing a tour less viewed by fans, and overall, their sponsorship money will decrease materially.  

That's the thing - if only the stars are playing then there will be more fans watching compared to standard PGA Tour events.

Doesn't matter if it's a new tour or a new format of competition. The Match between Phil and Tiger had more viewers than any other cable golf telecast in history at 6.3 million. Only big-time majors like The Masters pull more viewers than that. The star power is where the viewers go, and where the viewers go so do the sponsors.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Pretzel

[iacas]

FIGJAM talking out of his ass? You don't say…

'Just not true': PGA Tour responds to Phil's 'obnoxious greed' comments

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Phil Mickelson's "obnoxious greed" remarks did not go unnoticed by PGA Tour executives, who say the accusations are inaccurate.

[Flushed]

20 hours ago, Pretzel said:

That's the thing - if only the stars are playing then there will be more fans watching compared to standard PGA Tour events.

Doesn't matter if it's a new tour or a new format of competition. The Match between Phil and Tiger had more viewers than any other cable golf telecast in history at 6.3 million. Only big-time majors like The Masters pull more viewers than that. The star power is where the viewers go, and where the viewers go so do the sponsors.

Depends where the events are held. PGL - absolutely fine. If it's Saudi - Sponsors will start to drop them and they'll lose out on the $$ they thought was locked in.

[iacas]

39 minutes ago, Flushed said:

Depends where the events are held. PGL - absolutely fine. If it's Saudi - Sponsors will start to drop them and they'll lose out on the $$ they thought was locked in.

You don’t know that. I think it’s more likely the sponsors will pay if people are going to watch.

[DaveP043]

15 hours ago, iacas said:

FIGJAM talking out of his ass? You don't say…

'Just not true': PGA Tour responds to Phil's 'obnoxious greed' comments

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Phil Mickelson's "obnoxious greed" remarks did not go unnoticed by PGA Tour executives, who say the accusations are inaccurate.

I have to imagine that Phil willingly agreed to cede "ownership" of all of his "moments"  the the PGA Tour in return for the Tour providing him a platform to earn money and fame, a platform that facilitates his ability to earn additional money through exhibitions and endorsements.  And now that he's on the downward slide of his career arc, as his tour earnings diminish, he wants to change the deal, he wants the Tour to give him back all of that stuff.  I don't know, in my world when you agree to a deal, the deal stands.  Demanding in a very public forum that the Tour give back the stuff that Phil willingly gave up decades ago, when he CHOSE to play on the tour, sounds like the more obnoxiously greedy side of that particular argument.

As for the potential of other golf tours, I think they'll need to attract a whole bunch of top players to really have an impact on the PGA/European Tours.  Sure, a couple of players have reportedly been offered huge guarantees, but will the Saudis do that for 50 top players?  I think it would take a mass exodus of players, and I really don't see that happening.  I can imagine the PGA Tour negotiating a more lenient arrangement as far as players competing in non-PGA Tour events, but I don't really see players abandoning the Tour en masse at this stage.

 

[klineka]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

And now that he's on the downward slide of his career arc, as his tour earnings diminish, he wants to change the deal, he wants the Tour to give him back all of that stuff.  I don't know, in my world when you agree to a deal, the deal stands.  Demanding in a very public forum that the Tour give back the stuff that Phil willingly gave up decades ago, when he CHOSE to play on the tour, sounds like the more obnoxiously greedy side of that particular argument.

While I do agree with you on the fact that Phil knew what he was getting into and voluntarily signed his rights to his media away, I do think that it is worth noting that the world, specifically as it relates to digital media, video, social media, NFTs, etc was a MUCH different place when Phil first signed onto this than it is today, so it might not necessarily be a bad thing if the terms were modernized a bit for all players and they were given a little more rights to some of their shots or moments.

Just because a deal is a deal doesn't mean it can't, or shouldn't, be updated or changed decades later to reflect the change/advancement in technology.

Edited February 11, 2022 by klineka

[Double Mocha Man]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I think it would take a mass exodus of players, and I really don't see that happening.  I can imagine the PGA Tour negotiating a more lenient arrangement as far as players competing in non-PGA Tour events, but I don't really see players abandoning the Tour en masse at this stage.

A lot of these guys have really nice homes stateside and families.  I can't see them hanging out on the Arabian Peninsula playing golf in the heat, week after week.

[iacas]

57 minutes ago, klineka said:

While I do agree with you on the fact that Phil knew what he was getting into and voluntarily signed his rights to his media away, I do think that it is worth noting that the world, specifically as it relates to digital media, video, social media, NFTs, etc was a MUCH different place when Phil first signed onto this than it is today, so it might not necessarily be a bad thing if the terms were modernized a bit for all players and they were given a little more rights to some of their shots or moments.

At the end of the day, they still produced the media. They own it. What they do with it is their business.

[DaveP043]

29 minutes ago, klineka said:

While I do agree with you on the fact that Phil knew what he was getting into and voluntarily signed his rights to his media away, I do think that it is worth noting that the world, specifically as it relates to digital media, video, social media, NFTs, etc was a MUCH different place when Phil first signed onto this than it is today, so it might not necessarily be a bad thing if the terms were modernized a bit for all players and they were given a little more rights to some of their shots or moments.

Just because a deal is a deal doesn't mean it can't, or shouldn't, be updated or changed decades later to reflect the change/advancement in technology.

That's perfectly fair, but there are certainly better ways to try to open negotiations than to publicly label your partner in the deal as "obnoxiously greedy".  Perhaps Phil should hire his own videographer to capture his OWN moments for posterity.

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, DaveP043 said:

Perhaps Phil should hire his own videographer to capture his OWN moments for posterity.

I'd still watch him hitting a flop shot backwards over his head... even if it was grainy, out of focus and zooming in and out...

[DaveP043]

10 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I'd still watch him hitting a flop shot backwards over his head... even if it was grainy, out of focus and zooming in and out...

Apparently he does own the rights to a few of those, I found one taken from Phil's instructional video.  Youtube also has one that has the PGA Tour label.  

[boogielicious]

16 hours ago, iacas said:

At the end of the day, they still produced the media. They own it. What they do with it is their business.

Correct. And Phil never had to front his own money to produce, direct and film his own media, the Tour did. He received free production in exchange for his talent to play the game and entertain fans. Oh and he’s made hundreds of millions doing it.

[GolfLug]

31 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Phil never had to front his own money to produce, direct and film his own media, the Tour did. 

This is the part lot of 'talent' seems to miss routinely. I don't have an opinion if the players should be paid more but I know the players and the organization have a completely different financial risk profile.

[Flushed]

On 2/11/2022 at 5:02 PM, iacas said:

You don’t know that. I think it’s more likely the sponsors will pay if people are going to watch.

True, maybe. But RBC asked DJ not to wear their logo when he played there a couple of years back. I think others are going to scrutinise the players as well. Then again, there's a host of sponsors probably lining up behind them.

[Zeph]

On 2/11/2022 at 6:02 PM, iacas said:

You don’t know that. I think it’s more likely the sponsors will pay if people are going to watch.

Yeah. Sponsors are big companies, and big companies want to make money. That’s why they sponsor players. When there’s spectators, viewers and money in Saudi, the sponsors will follow. 

Adidas and Coca-Cola are still sponsoring FIFA in the soccer World Championship held in Qatar this year.

This is why sportswashing works so well. Everyone want money.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Zeph

[Double Mocha Man]

7 minutes ago, Zeph said:

Sponsors are big companies, and big companies want to make money. That’s why they sponsor players.

Wondering if the usual sponsorship contract has a clause that the corporatiion can nullify the contract if the player changes tours???