Chuck Q Lesson

[iacas]

I'm presenting this video without any comments. I endeavor to "hang up and listen."

I'm curious what everyone thinks of this video. Chuck posted it on his YouTube channel.

So, post away, and discuss amongst yourselves. I will work very hard to not post in this topic (after this post, of course).

[Vinsk]

Well...I’ll give my novice opinion. First, the guy says he shot a 71 early that day. I’m not really sure what the point of the lesson was nor did the player seem to have any specific question. What CQ was showing him was quite an change for this guy but for what? I never heard the guy say, ‘ boy I’m gaining 10-15 yards with a more consistent ball flight.’ Is that the goal?

Being able to fire a 71 I would think a player at that level would have a pretty good idea what’s needed to go lower yes? Seems a swing overhaul is a bit much. 
 

I don’t have a trained eye at all but the player looked a bit goat-humpy when CQ would say he did a good swing. I wish there had been some data on his ball striking for comparison. 

[Grizvok]

It took 50 minutes of an almost hour long lesson for him to actually suggest trying a very slow swing and then building up from there.

Also, if I’m the trainee, I’d want to see much more video of myself during the practice session. I want to know exactly what “good” looked like for me and exactly what “bad” looked like for me. There were several cuts of the video so maybe they did that during those, but I doubt it.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Grizvok

[Zippo]

I agree with @Vinskbut would add that it seemed to me that he started the lesson taking the club back too far to the inside and was still taking it back inside at the end of the video. He also, to me, looked to be flippy, though it was difficult to tell from the down the line video. His follow through looked very abbreviated and not very fluid. I think the closed stance, generally speaking of course, can tend to make the rotation at impact and afterwards more difficult for us older folk though it also makes it a bit easier to rotate back on the takeaway. My tendency would be for a more square stance with the feet a bit flared. Good thing I'm not an instructor or more golfers would probably take up chess! 😄

[Vinsk]

I’m not convinced the student was doing the ‘logo to the camera’ as CQ asked him to do from the beginning. I would’ve had him do the takeaway only, slowly and make sure that was being done properly before hitting full shots.

[boogielicious]

I like his hands on approach and positive attitude. He was able to identify an issue and show the student via video. Because the student was a good player, he probably took a different approach to explaining things than he would have for a mid or high HC student. He used video to show the student and stated the feel isn’t real, which was good.

He did use partial swings to help reinforce the feel. My instructors suggest holding at A9 to work on that feel. I’m not an instructor but I think that would have helped this student instead of letting him finish the swing in his reps.

He kept at it with the student the whole lesson and interacted with him the whole time. Crappy instructors don’t do that. He also gave him a feel to think about and use in a mirror. I liked his teaching method for the most part.

[dennyjones]

I like the hands on approach.   

7 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I’m not convinced the student was doing the ‘logo to the camera’ as CQ asked him to do from the beginning. I would’ve had him do the takeaway only, slowly and make sure that was being done properly before hitting full shots.

+1

I liked the way he backed down and slowed the swing down to reinforce something that wasn't clicking for the student.     I don't know the guy's priority pieces (seemed to be a few)  but Chuck seemed confident he can get the guy to where he needs to be.

[Vinsk]

53 minutes ago, dennyjones said:

Chuck seemed confident

Seldom an issue with him....lol.

[boogielicious]

2 hours ago, dennyjones said:

I like the hands on approach.   

+1

I liked the way he backed down and slowed the swing down to reinforce something that wasn't clicking for the student.     I don't know the guy's priority pieces (seemed to be a few)  but Chuck seemed confident he can get the guy to where he needs to be.

If this was my lesson, what I personally would like more of is “why” the changes will help and then a plan on how to practice it, film it to see if I am making the changes. Chuck didn’t show the student enough before and after stuff. I would want more then a plan on how to change.

[billchao]

I haven’t watched the full video yet, only ~11 minutes, but so far it seems like the guy doesn’t turn enough and CQ wants him to turn more while restricting his hips. Not really the way to do it IMO. Shoulder turn is limited by hip turn. Needs a little more hip tilt as he turns back, that’s going to require the hips turning on a tilt as well.

[phillyk]

Just jotting as I go along, In the beginning,  I like his quick bio, but I would have asked more about the students current goals in the swing, current ball flight, feels, etc.  I'd want to know how my student thinks before I jump into it.

I like that he was quick to work on something, but besides the comment of having "good player problems" he didn't say a lot of positives about the swing.  I like to start with something I like, then move to where it could go.  

He asked how the guy felt after 1 swing on a golf ball.  I don't know, I guess I'd let him hit a few before seeing how it feels.

So, 14min, two things to think about, and then on to something else? A lot and fast.  He didn't really ask either, to see if he is ready to move onto the next piece.  My thoughts on his back swing were similar. Didn't quite finish the turn and stood up by way of the arms at the top.  By feeling a bigger turn, he didn't allow his arms to prop him up.

I don't know about the left leg extending on the down swing as early as he said, but I wonder if he said it to exaggerate the feel?

I'm stopping at 20min for right now.  The initial work with finishing the turn was lost as they transitioned into the hip rotation.  No toys or training aids, just hands on and verbal.  The guy obviously had trouble with the hands on approach.  I'll label this a 2 for right now.  I'll finish later and see if it changes.

58 minutes ago, billchao said:

I haven’t watched the full video yet, only ~11 minutes, but so far it seems like the guy doesn’t turn enough and CQ wants him to turn more while restricting his hips. Not really the way to do it IMO. Shoulder turn is limited by hip turn. Needs a little more hip tilt as he turns back, that’s going to require the hips turning on a tilt as well.

I was definitely a little confused as he was trying to hold his left knee in place as he made a backswing and telling him to rotate more.  Once again, maybe it was the exaggeration to help?  

[boogielicious]

I just got back from the range after playing nine. There was an “instructor“ there giving a lesson. He was the awful pro that I’ve seen so many times and lead me to The Sand Trap. No video. No basics of the golf swing. Just a random comments and tips from magazines. The video above is a far better lesson, but I would still want more.

[dennyjones]

After watching the complete video, it looks to me that that golfer was more confused than when he started.    I've always had lessons that end with a lesson plan (priority piece) and drills to help achieve my priority piece.   A video is always sent my way with comments during the video of a before and after swing.   

If this was the end of the lesson, I would have left overwhelmed and confused.  

[Grizvok]

24 minutes ago, dennyjones said:

After watching the complete video, it looks to me that that golfer was more confused than when he started.    I've always had lessons that end with a lesson plan (priority piece) and drills to help achieve my priority piece.   A video is always sent my way with comments during the video of a before and after swing.   

If this was the end of the lesson, I would have left overwhelmed and confused.  

Absolutely. My understanding was that the other instructor "Aaron" that they mentioned works under Chuck as an instructor for RotarySwing. To hear that an instructor from the same company (a company that teaches a model swing mind you) has such a drastically different take on what should be prioritized would have me running for the hills.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Grizvok

[saevel25]

Yea, it was a bit disjointed. He gave a little bit of time to the backswing, but then switched focus. If the entire lesson was just on that front side extension it probably would have been better. 

As for the information, I think it was OK. 

[billchao]

Ok, I tried to watch the rest of it. Skimmed a bunch in the middle. How long was this lesson if the video is cut in places and it's still almost an hour long?

CQ's information is ok. Some stuff I agree with, some stuff I disagree with. I dislike how he presented it. For the most part, it was, do this. Do that. Don't do this. Don't do that. I like to know why. Don't do this because it makes you do that. Do this because this happens. It might just be me. He doesn't really show him how to practice stuff, either. He's mostly hitting full swings while trying to make these changes. Slow swings. Drills. Exaggerate the feels. Doing something the exact amount you want at speed isn't the best way to make swing changes.

He also didn't really seem to give any reason as to why he wanted the player to make these changes. He didn't give much of an assessment at all. Yea, the guy shot 71, but what are his misses? What is his pattern? Based on what I see in the swing, he probably has some start line and trajectory control issues because he rolls and flips, but this isn't actually addressed directly in the video. Seems like CQ is giving a cookie cutter lesson instead of one tailored specifically to the player, which might be ok if that was his priority piece anyway, but again, never really communicated on video.

The biggest problem I have with the lesson is how he jumps around a lot. He started with a turn piece in the backswing, which I addressed in my previous post. Then he moved onto having the player rotate more in the downswing, using the lower body better. All that's well and fine, but then he focuses on lead leg extension, then back to a sit/squat move, then kind of jumps back and forth between the two. He eventually has the guy doing swings while keeping his right heel planted, which can be done while sliding or even stalling the hips, which is something he doesn't want the guy to do. All of this stuff is related, but it feels like there's a lack of direction. And he never really does anything to address the guy's roll release pattern, which I thought (perhaps erroneously) was important.

I gave it a 2. If I was the student in the lesson, I don't think I'd walk away too happy with it.

[Slim_Pivot]

I’m pretty sure he could’ve done the whole lesson on the takeaway or turning / loading better, but I don’t know.

At the 20 min mark, I feel bad for the guy. It was some lead knee stuff in backswing, then lead knee stuff in transition/ downswing while posting. Now he’s getting on him for having his legs go all over the place. He wants him to squash grapes now with lead foot. They are kind of related, but that’s a lot of moving parts

I’ll watch more in the morning. I wonder what the message will be at the end? 

[boogielicious]

11 hours ago, billchao said:

I like to know why

Exactly.