Anyone Who Used to Flip and Now Have Lag in Your Swing - How Did You Overcome?

[khalespace]

I flip my wrist at the ball and I am taking lesson to overcome it. After 3 weeks it is still a problem. There are hundreds of videos on youtube suggesting various drills such as work on weight shift by stepping your left foot forward, bow your left wrist at top of backswing, hitting stinger shots only at the range, practice swing without the balls. Can you share your experience on overcoming your flipping problem? What was the most effective drill and how long did it take to have lag in your swing?

[cipher]

Keep at it.  It can take a long time to get there. The feel for it is going to be different for everyone. What is your instructor having you work on? If they are good it will be fixing basic things first or how you are moving in the swing first to get you to not flip down the line.  It probably won't be a quick fix, but as you work on the various movements in the swing you will get there.  

[GolfLug]

Feel that your trail side chest, shoulder, hips are going through impact along with your trail hand and club.

Most folks who flip.. varying degrees.. have a tendency to hang back and throw club at the ball.

[colin007]

Flipping happens because other things are or aren't happening the way they're supposed to. Figure out the real reason, what's forcing you to flip

[Missouri Swede]

I got a tour striker training club. That helped.

[ncates00]

37 minutes ago, khalespace said:

I flip my wrist at the ball and I am taking lesson to overcome it. After 3 weeks it is still a problem. There are hundreds of videos on youtube suggesting various drills such as work on weight shift by stepping your left foot forward, bow your left wrist at top of backswing, hitting stinger shots only at the range, practice swing without the balls. Can you share your experience on overcoming your flipping problem? What was the most effective drill and how long did it take to have lag in your swing?

For me, these things help:

1) start off with forward shaft lean at address.  Get the butt of the club pointed at your front hip.  I don't think most people should have the shaft vertical at address unless you're hitting a pitch shot.  You can certainly still flip since the swing is dynamic, but I think it will help mitigate the flip.  It also serves as a great visual for you to execute as it basically presets impact for you.  I think it works much better than those contrived pump drills that try to get you to have lean. 

2) hit down on the ball.  Unless you're hitting a pitch shot (a slower swing), you likely won't flip if you hitting down on the ball properly.  It simply doesn't make sense to flip as it will be very difficult to hit down on the ball with the head continuing down after impact and up to your finish if you flip.

[khalespace]

4 hours ago, cipher said:

Keep at it.  It can take a long time to get there. The feel for it is going to be different for everyone. What is your instructor having you work on? If they are good it will be fixing basic things first or how you are moving in the swing first to get you to not flip down the line.  It probably won't be a quick fix, but as you work on the various movements in the swing you will get there.  

My swing was very flat, too much upper body turn, with no weight shift during backswing[as shown on pressure mat]. At impact I am flipping with chicken wing.

My instructor is helping me with:

1) More weight shift at start of swing, feel more weight on right foot during backswing. 

2) Turn with left shoulder rather than arm take away, left shoulder pointing to ball.

3) More upright backswing with bowed left wrist at top, this also helps to limit excessive body turn that doesn't store power

4) Weight shift from right to left in lower body, hit half swing stinger shots

 

On my own, I am trying these steps [tips from Youtube] in addition to what the instructor told me to do:

1) Try to emulate the desire swing in slow motion, 100 to 200 reps a day. Often with eyes closed to improve feel. Increase speed of the swing without ball.

2) Try to keep maximum angle [between club and left arm] at backswing, and slow swing into impact bag while maintaining lag

3) I just ordered the Tour Striker club as suggested by Swede - I think the idea is valid

4) I will try more forward shaft lean suggested by Ncastes00

 

I am doing a lot of practice WITHOUT the ball. For some reasons, with the ball I usually revert back to old swing. I realized that this will take several months. I am giving myself 6 months. I will try to be patience. I start to use my phone to record my swing in slow motion and the videos give good feeback.

Many thanks,

My current swing on video, still not a lot of weight shift on back swing, excessive turn, flip and chicken wing. Not much has changed but I feel a little more solid than before.

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by khalespace

[cipher]

@khalespaceThe issue is you don’t have enough room not to flip while maintaining any swing speed. You are completely square to the ball and are not clearing your front out, up and away from the ball. I am not sure why he is having you focus on those things first. But, if your instructor is teaching you these things for any other purpose than to get you to the point where you can work on clearing enough room to create and inline impact, he isn’t teaching you the right things. But maybe he is teaching you these things to get you there.  I am not sure.

Edited September 30, 2020 by cipher

[Vinsk]

3 minutes ago, cipher said:

The issue is you don’t have enough room not to flip while maintaining any swing speed. You are completely square to the ball and are not clearing your front out, up and away from the ball. If your instructor is teaching you these things for any other purpose than to get you to the point where you can work on clearing enough room to create and inline impact, he isn’t teaching you the right things. 

Here’s Billy Horschel at impact for comparison:

[khalespace]

@cipher Thank you, what drill do you suggest to promote better turn?

 

4 minutes ago, cipher said:

@khalespaceThe issue is you don’t have enough room not to flip while maintaining any swing speed. You are completely square to the ball and are not clearing your front out, up and away from the ball. I am not sure why he is having you focus on those things first. But, if your instructor is teaching you these things for any other purpose than to get you to the point where you can work on clearing enough room to create and inline impact, he isn’t teaching you the right things. 

 

2 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Here’s Billy Horschel at impact for comparison:

Thank you, his hip looks at least 45 degree turned. Mine is square.

 

[cipher]

17 minutes ago, khalespace said:

@cipher Thank you, what drill do you suggest to promote better turn?

 

 

Thank you, his hip looks at least 45 degree turned. Mine is square.

 

Yep, exactly.  Sorry, my iPhone line drawing isn’t the greatest.  Look at how much you move towards the ball in the downswing with square hips.  Check out the early extension video below.  If someone has a better drill let me know but that is what comes to mind for me.  Hips sliding forward and staying on the wall/chair.  You probably can't create an inline impact until you can do that with the hips.

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by cipher

[iacas]

1 hour ago, khalespace said:

My swing was very flat, too much upper body turn, with no weight shift during backswing[as shown on pressure mat]. At impact I am flipping with chicken wing.

My instructor is helping me with:

1) More weight shift at start of swing, feel more weight on right foot during backswing. 

2) Turn with left shoulder rather than arm take away, left shoulder pointing to ball.

3) More upright backswing with bowed left wrist at top, this also helps to limit excessive body turn that doesn't store power

4) Weight shift from right to left in lower body, hit half swing stinger shots

 

On my own, I am trying these steps [tips from Youtube] in addition to what the instructor told me to do:

1) Try to emulate the desire swing in slow motion, 100 to 200 reps a day. Often with eyes closed to improve feel. Increase speed of the swing without ball.

2) Try to keep maximum angle [between club and left arm] at backswing, and slow swing into impact bag while maintaining lag

3) I just ordered the Tour Striker club as suggested by Swede - I think the idea is valid

4) I will try more forward shaft lean suggested by Ncastes00

Two things, and I'm going to be blunt, but bear in mind these two things before I share my two things:

• I don't know you, your instructor, etc. I could very well be wrong.
• I'm trying to help.

My two things are:

• I don't know what your instructor is thinking, but one of the biggest parts of my job and one of the things I feel I do well is to prioritize. Your instructor is having you work on (let me count…), 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 things. If that list is chopped into thirds, that's still probably too many things to tackle at once.
• Now you're going to add to that list by adding random YouTube videos and suggestions from folks who mean well here on TST?

Just say no to all of it.

Find your single, one priority thing (setup doesn't count - you can do five things at setup and take your time to get them right). One dynamic thing. And work your ass off on that one thing.

[khalespace]

On 9/30/2020 at 1:56 PM, iacas said:

Two things, and I'm going to be blunt, but bear in mind these two things before I share my two things:

• I don't know you, your instructor, etc. I could very well be wrong.
• I'm trying to help.

My two things are:

• I don't know what your instructor is thinking, but one of the biggest parts of my job and one of the things I feel I do well is to prioritize. Your instructor is having you work on (let me count…), 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 things. If that list is chopped into thirds, that's still probably too many things to tackle at once.
• Now you're going to add to that list by adding random YouTube videos and suggestions from folks who mean well here on TST?

Just say no to all of it.

Find your single, one priority thing (setup doesn't count - you can do five things at setup and take your time to get them right). One dynamic thing. And work your ass off on that one thing.

Thank you for your feedback. Recently, sometimes there are so many swing thoughts my mind went blank. I will focus on turning and leading with my lower body to clear room for the arms and club to go through without compensating with chicken wing, and flip.

Edited October 1, 2020 by khalespace

[TN94z]

So I had/have this same tendency. I would have to say the biggest thing that helped the most was hip turn. If my hips stall any at all on the downswing, it causes me to stand up and then the only way to hit the ball is throw the club at it which caused the flip. Keep the hips/chest turning.

The main this to take your overall swing and find the priority pieces that you need to be working on, in order.

[ChetlovesMer]

On 9/30/2020 at 10:56 AM, khalespace said:

I flip my wrist at the ball and I am taking lesson to overcome it. After 3 weeks it is still a problem. 

I can tell you this much. I can't solve anything other than a set-up issue in 3 weeks. Now, you may be (likely are) more coordinated than I am. But I still suggest being patient. Along with what everyone else in this thread is telling you. Only work on one thing at a time. Good luck and hang in there. 

[arturo28mx]

For me, I started getting more lag when I focused on doing the downswing with my torso and not with my arms. My arms are simply connected to my torso.

[khalespace]

On 10/3/2020 at 12:12 PM, arturo28mx said:

For me, I started getting more lag when I focused on doing the downswing with my torso and not with my arms. My arms are simply connected to my torso.

I understand this concept but it is so weird I just couldn't do it. I tried the towel drill. I think the key is using this drill with a short swing and and keep doing it. From the video, I notice that don't shift my weight during the downswing so I am doing a lot of weight shift drills without a golf club. One drill I like is swinging my arm back with my feet together, while the arms go back and near the top, step forward with my left foot and their finish swinging the arms up while putting most of the weight on the left foot in the golf finishing position.

I also received my Tour Striker PW today. The club head looks hideous and there is no way to hit the ball properly without lag. I can't wait to try this on the range.

I realized this is very difficult to overcome. However, I am playing better golf now with less fat and thin shots on the course. I shot 8 over when I played the back-9 on Saturday. My goal is to play in the low 80s in 6 month.

[That L Play]

I have struggled with the flip as well, and similarly have tried many different swing thoughts and drills to fix it with little success. What has worked for me recently though is this: focusing on keeping my right (trail) wrist hinged from the top of my backswing, as long as possible through impact.

I have found that the more specific the instruction, the easier it is for me to carry out the action. In this case, the instruction is simple and direct-  keep your right hand bent back as long as possible. When I tried focusing on a more abstract swing thought like "turn your hips" , I've had a much harder time executing the movement.

This video from Eric Cogorno really helped hammer in the concept of keeping the trail wrist hinged: 

 

Who knows if this will work the same wonders for you as it has for me, but it could be something worth considering. Good luck!