Charley Hoffman Bitches About the Rules of Golf

[iacas]

And Phil and Bryson reply.

I sent this tweet:

 

[DeadMan]

What rules does Charley think he’d play under in a different league? 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, DeadMan said:

What rules does Charley think he’d play under in a different league? 

Good question.

[iacas]

‘You wonder why guys are wanting to jump ship’: Pro rips PGA Tour after rules issue

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Charley Hoffman, at the WM Phoenix Open, ripped the PGA Tour after a rules issue, saying: “You wonder why guys are wanting to jump ship.”

[pganapathy]

Stupidity is not a gift.  The rules permits you to drop in various locations (side depending on type of hazard, entry point, stroke and distance etc.)  If he picked a bad location, the fault is on him

[iacas]

6 hours ago, pganapathy said:

Stupidity is not a gift.  The rules permits you to drop in various locations (side depending on type of hazard, entry point, stroke and distance etc.)  If he picked a bad location, the fault is on him

No, don't you see. He needs "protection" (from his own stupidity?).

[GolfLug]

I remember a few years ago when he took relief from a fried egg lie for a poor stance or something and gave himself what seemed like a better lie, of course, all legally. His playing partner (don't remember who) said within earshot 'wow that's generous' or similar. He said back 'rules'.. probably smirking.

I wonder he sent the PGA a Christmas card for that 'gift'. Ha.

Found the link:

https://golf.com/news/hoffman-used-a-so-generous-ruling-to-avoid-a-brutal-lie-and-got-ridiculed-by-chappell/

Edited February 12, 2022 by iacas
removed amp link

[DaveP043]

I suggest that Charlie go ahead and jump ship, I'm not sure his absence will be felt all that profoundly.  But before he leaves, he might want to ask Greg Norman or the Saudis whether he'll be invited to write the new rules that will govern the new league, and who they plan to use as Officials.  His issue seems to be with the Rules, and the PGA Tour Rules Officials, I'm sure he'll insist on a complete change.  And of course we know the golf world will revolve around Charlie.

Although I didn't see it, I can understand that some criticism of the marking of the penalty area limit could be warranted.  Of course, if  the limit was higher on the bank, a player wouldn't get free relief for a ball embedded on the bank (inside the Penalty Area), and might not be able to take lateral relief the way Charlie was allowed to for a ball that hits the bank and bounces into the water.  Its not as simple as Charlie thinks it should be.

[Vinsk]

So…He’s saying he doesn’t understand the rules so damn the PGA TOUR and it’s amateur rules officials? What part of his misunderstanding of the rules of golf make him the professional? 

[Old1964]

Wasn't his contention that he believes the rule about the drop around the penalty area was fundamentally short-sighted? Even Phil can connect with him emotionally as they understand what it is like to play golf for a living and that the amateur-led rules committees are slow to address changes that impact their financial bottom line? It seemed he was saying the rule should have been written to say that if the ball moved by natural forces into a hazard after having been placed, it would not be deemed a lost ball. 

FWIW - I can sympathize with the stream of thought that his comments are petty and smack of elitist thinking. Yet one could still make the point that there has always been a lot of frustration with rules - before they finally get changed. 

 

[mcanadiens]

Rules are for fools.

Charley can join my Sunday afternoon hackers club. Our motto is "Whatever!. ... I do what I want."

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, Old1964 said:

Wasn't his contention that he believes the rule about the drop around the penalty area was fundamentally short-sighted? Even Phil can connect with him emotionally as they understand what it is like to play golf for a living and that the amateur-led rules committees are slow to address changes that impact their financial bottom line? It seemed he was saying the rule should have been written to say that if the ball moved by natural forces into a hazard after having been placed, it would not be deemed a lost ball. 

Once a ball has been put into play, the ball is in play.  If it is moved by the player, the player is penalized.  If it is moved by natural forces, it is played where it ends up.  If it is moved by an opponent in match play, the player wins the hole.  (These are all generalizations, with exceptions).  Apparently Charlie thinks that there should be separate rules for a ball in play after dropping and/or placing, versus simply in play.  He also thinks the Penalty Area line was drawn in the wrong place, FORCING him to place the ball in a precarious position (he could have taken relief two other ways, he chose the precarious place).  He'd have bitched the same way if the line was the top of the slope, and his ball caromed off the slope into the water, FORCING him to take a drop much further away,  He's upset by the second penalty, and he's putting the blame on everything but himself.  He had the choice to take a different type or relief, or to place the ball on a more secure spot, he screwed it up.

BTW, I'm not so sure the ball is "lost", even though golf media uses that term.  Its in a Penalty Area.  Charlie had to take Penalty Area relief.  If he'd been required to take Stroke and Distance relief (for a Lost Ball), the reference point would have been the location of his last Stroke.  Placing the ball isn't a stroke, the reference point is on the tee, that's the last Stroke Charlie made.  So in reality the Rules saved him almost 300 yards, when compared against the "lost" ball the media talked about.

[Sandy Divot]

He came up on the short end of the stick on a rules situation. I would bet everyone that plays has had a bad outcome at some point. He was frustrated, and popped off. Not the first guy, and won’t be the last.

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Old1964 said:

Wasn't his contention that he believes the rule about the drop around the penalty area was fundamentally short-sighted?

Perhaps, but he doesn't talk about how they're short-sighted or not. He doesn't like that, once in 20 years, and through his own stupidity in choosing that drop option, his ball rolled into a penalty area. That it was there originally is irrelevant to the application of the Rules, but not to his story.

3 hours ago, Old1964 said:

Even Phil can connect with him emotionally as they understand what it is like to play golf for a living and that the amateur-led rules committees

They're not "amateur-led committees." They're often amateurs as far as playing the game goes, but they're the professional ruling body. They're paid to create, maintain, educate, and enforce the rules.

3 hours ago, Old1964 said:

It seemed he was saying the rule should have been written to say that if the ball moved by natural forces into a hazard after having been placed, it would not be deemed a lost ball.

Good luck with that.

3 hours ago, Old1964 said:

FWIW - I can sympathize with the stream of thought that his comments are petty and smack of elitist thinking. Yet one could still make the point that there has always been a lot of frustration with rules - before they finally get changed. 

This one isn't going to change. It's pretty much always been this. A ball in play ended up in a penalty area.

1 minute ago, Sandy Divot said:

He came up on the short end of the stick on a rules situation. I would bet everyone that plays has had a bad outcome at some point. He was frustrated, and popped off. Not the first guy, and won’t be the last.

There's more to it than that.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Once a ball has been put into play, the ball is in play.  If it is moved by the player, the player is penalized.  If it is moved by natural forces, it is played where it ends up.  If it is moved by an opponent in match play, the player wins the hole.  (These are all generalizations, with exceptions).  Apparently Charlie thinks that there should be separate rules for a ball in play after dropping and/or placing, versus simply in play.  He also thinks the Penalty Area line was drawn in the wrong place, FORCING him to place the ball in a precarious position (he could have taken relief two other ways, he chose the precarious place).  He'd have bitched the same way if the line was the top of the slope, and his ball caromed off the slope into the water, FORCING him to take a drop much further away,  He's upset by the second penalty, and he's putting the blame on everything but himself.  He had the choice to take a different type or relief, or to place the ball on a more secure spot, he screwed it up.

BTW, I'm not so sure the ball is "lost", even though golf media uses that term.  Its in a Penalty Area.  Charlie had to take Penalty Area relief.  If he'd been required to take Stroke and Distance relief (for a Lost Ball), the reference point would have been the location of his last Stroke.  Placing the ball isn't a stroke, the reference point is on the tee, that's the last Stroke Charlie made.  So in reality the Rules saved him almost 300 yards, when compared against the "lost" ball the media talked about.

I’d be really curious to hear Charlie’s response to this post. When being told that he chose the more precarious drop, I wonder how he considers that the RO mistake?

[boogielicious]

30 minutes ago, iacas said:

They're not "amateur-led committees." They're often amateurs as far as playing the game goes, but they're the professional ruling body. They're paid to create, maintain, educate, and enforce the rules.

Absolutely. And Charlie is obviously and amateur when it comes to understanding the rules.

[Zeph]

He bitches about the rules, admit he was wrong, then goes on bitching? 

[phillyk]

It made me chuckle to see his score today.