Slow Play

[saevel25]

Well, by the rules of golf you get 5 minutes to look for a lost ball. So technically, you could easily add 10 minutes to each hole, and not loose a golf ball. So things could be really bad. But everyone has the right to play golf, there shouldn't be a limit to how good you have to be for the sake of the all other golfers. To me, i think people are more concerned about getting off the course as quickly as possible then enjoying the round. Its crazy, they get so pissed off, or hit into another group. To me thats worse then playing slow. Because playing slow might not be a specific choice you make, it just might be a bad day. Acting like an idiot is your choice, and is not welcome on the golf course.

[Yukari]

I don't think that is it.

I think it has more to do with keeping the rhythm going rather than having to wait and then having to warm up again for your next shot.

Originally Posted by saevel25

Well, by the rules of golf you get 5 minutes to look for a lost ball. So technically, you could easily add 10 minutes to each hole, and not loose a golf ball. So things could be really bad. But everyone has the right to play golf, there shouldn't be a limit to how good you have to be for the sake of the all other golfers. To me, i think people are more concerned about getting off the course as quickly as possible then enjoying the round. Its crazy, they get so pissed off, or hit into another group. To me thats worse then playing slow. Because playing slow might not be a specific choice you make, it just might be a bad day. Acting like an idiot is your choice, and is not welcome on the golf course.

[808hacker]

One thing I haven't seen in this thread are the extreme slow downs that happen because of betting. Everyone knows about them and every /shotputt looks like serious dough is exchanging. From what I have seen, this really slows down a round and they don't like to be bothered. You can't even ask them if you can skip ahead.

[nevets88]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Well, by the rules of golf you get 5 minutes to look for a lost ball. So technically, you could easily add 10 minutes to each hole, and not loose a golf ball. So things could be really bad. But everyone has the right to play golf, there shouldn't be a limit to how good you have to be for the sake of the all other golfers. To me, i think people are more concerned about getting off the course as quickly as possible then enjoying the round. Its crazy, they get so pissed off, or hit into another group. To me thats worse then playing slow. Because playing slow might not be a specific choice you make, it just might be a bad day. Acting like an idiot is your choice, and is not welcome on the golf course.

I don't mind the occasional slow round and I will never purposely endanger the group in front of me, but when slow play is endemic and you have to wake up at crazy hours or shake your schedule upside down all the time to avoid it if at all, it just becomes too much to bear. You don't have to be a good player, just keep moving and I'm not asking for sub four hour rounds. I am dealing with 6+ hour rounds and I am guessing most in metro areas are, so 4:30 would be a huge improvement if at all possible, which is not what most would deem fast.

[rustyredcab]

Originally Posted by 808hacker

One thing I haven't seen in this thread are the extreme slow downs that happen because of betting. Everyone knows about them and every /shotputt looks like serious dough is exchanging. From what I have seen, this really slows down a round and they don't like to be bothered. You can't even ask them if you can skip ahead.

As it relates to pace of play, betting can hurt (and often does) but SHOULD also help. When the thing that matters is the bet/game, players pick up when the hole is over. Putts that do not change the outcome of the hole, are conceded, regardless of length. When you are out of a hole, you are done with that hole. When one plays like this it can greatly speed play.

In practice, most players "waste" time finishing the hole they have already lost. I understand that it is hard to take a conceded 12 foot putt and record your score as if you made two putts (as the handicap rules say you should give yourself the most likely score). However, once you start to realize that very often those conceded putts are going to put your score at the Equitable Stroke max anyway, your say, "Thank you." and move on. To do otherwise, and to then play every "important" putt like it was for a million dollars, is the double whammy that creates slow play.

[neophytea]

As a former beginner who took too long 5 to 6+ hours to play a round by myself. I would play the local course between 3:00 to 3:30 when the course was empty.  I would like to share what caused my rounds to be so long, .  I must add that I now I am now a much better player who plays my single 18 hole rounds in 1 hour and 50 minutes to 2 hours 10 minutes.

1.  When I was a beginner I played very fast between shots, didn't take practice swings, drove straight to my ball if I could see it, hop out of the cart and immediately hit the ball. Problem : I hit the ball everywhere - rough, fairway, woods, etc. Even though I never spent more that 2 minutes time looking for the ball .  If I didn't find it I dropped a ball and played on from that area. I lost between 6 to 12 balls a round. Solution : I improved my time when I played old balls and never went into the rough looking for a ball.  If the ball wasn't in the fairway or short rough, I dropped another ball where mine left the fairway and played on.  I cut my time to 3.5 hours to 4 hours.

2.  The other day I played in a foursome.  Everyone did a good job keeping their ball in the fairway but they were staggered down the center of the fairway every 25 to 50 yards.  Only one cart could drive up to their ball, because you would be in front of the person hitting.  I spent the most of the day waiting to be able to drive up to the next ball. Problem: People couldn't hit to the same area to speed up play. Solution : Better players should hit shorter to a ball that already is in the fairway.  Two of us began playing a game of call our shots and try to hit to one of the other players balls.  Also better use of the T's to keep the balls landing in the same area.  Also, try not to put really different players together.  We could have played a lot faster as two twosomes.

3. Where I play, most  300 and over drivers can't keep their balls in their own fairway.  You can't Imagine how much time is lost waiting for players from as far as two fairways over who are driving or walking in your fairway and looking for their ball. Solution :  White stakes when the course is crowded, your ball is gone if it isn't in your fairway.

4.  I have had to stop playing and wait when people wander onto my fairway looking for balls.

5.  Most single players who play fairways and greens can usually play 18 holes in just over 2 hours.  But the same players in foursomes usually take about four hours.

Summary:  To speed up play on crowded weekends

1.  In general to speed up play, Courses should widen the fairways, cut the rough, and outlaw looking for lost balls.  Play "drop a new ball" and play on.

2.  No playing from another fairway, and no retrieving your ball from another fairway.

3.  Limit size of groups to two when beginners are in the group.

4.  Limit mornings on crowded days to fast play and fast players.  Morning T time players get a free hot dog and a beer if they are finished in under 4 hours.

5.  Have beginners and slow players play during slow times on the weekend.

6.  Have a few good players available to play with and educate new beginners.  Let the good players play for free if they volunteer and help the beginners learn the proper way to play on the course.

[colin007]

^^^

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by colin007

^^^

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

ditto

[nevets88]

Slow play is not going to be solved by rules as much as it is by cultural/attitude. IMHO, any dent to slow play has to come from changes in the way people think and care.

[newtogolf]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or sincere but what you're suggesting isn't golf.  If you're just having a practice round for beginners I can see you expecting longer hitters to hit it shorter and in the same area as shorter hitters but during a normal round, won't happen.  I'm not sure what your proposing for #3, if it's any ball outside of your fairway or any ball that lands in another fairway.  Regardless who's going to pay full price for a round of golf and not be able to keep a real golf score?

I get through a round of golf in an acceptable time without any crazy rules, so no reason others can't.

Originally Posted by neophytea

2.  The other day I played in a foursome.  Everyone did a good job keeping their ball in the fairway but they were staggered down the center of the fairway every 25 to 50 yards.  Only one cart could drive up to their ball, because you would be in front of the person hitting.  I spent the most of the day waiting to be able to drive up to the next ball.  Problem:  People couldn't hit to the same area to speed up play.  Solution:  Better players should hit shorter to a ball that already is in the fairway.  Two of us began playing a game of call our shots and try to hit to one of the other players balls.  Also better use of the T's to keep the balls landing in the same area.  Also, try not to put really different players together.  We could have played a lot faster as two twosomes.

3. Where I play, most  300 and over drivers can't keep their balls in their own fairway.  You can't Imagine how much time is lost waiting for players from as far as two fairways over who are driving or walking in your fairway and looking for their ball.  Solution:  White stakes when the course is crowded, your ball is gone if it isn't in your fairway.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or sincere but what you're suggesting isn't golf.  If you're just having a practice round for beginners I can see you expecting longer hitters to hit it shorter and in the same area as shorter hitters but during a normal round, won't happen.  I'm not sure what your proposing for #3, if it's any ball outside of your fairway or any ball that lands in another fairway.  Regardless who's going to pay full price for a round of golf and not be able to keep a real golf score?

I get through a round of golf in an acceptable time without any crazy rules, so no reason others can't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neophytea

2.  The other day I played in a foursome.  Everyone did a good job keeping their ball in the fairway but they were staggered down the center of the fairway every 25 to 50 yards.  Only one cart could drive up to their ball, because you would be in front of the person hitting.  I spent the most of the day waiting to be able to drive up to the next ball.  Problem:  People couldn't hit to the same area to speed up play.  Solution:  Better players should hit shorter to a ball that already is in the fairway.  Two of us began playing a game of call our shots and try to hit to one of the other players balls.  Also better use of the T's to keep the balls landing in the same area.  Also, try not to put really different players together.  We could have played a lot faster as two twosomes.

3. Where I play, most  300 and over drivers can't keep their balls in their own fairway.  You can't Imagine how much time is lost waiting for players from as far as two fairways over who are driving or walking in your fairway and looking for their ball.  Solution:  White stakes when the course is crowded, your ball is gone if it isn't in your fairway.

Why can't the shortest hitter in his group just learn to hit the ball farther?

[bplewis24]

I like the idea that all players should aim for the same area to speed up play.  To me, that is ingenuous and I'm not sure why nobody has thought of it sooner.  I vote that this area that they should all aim for be called the "Fairway."

:)

I digress to this point: people that hit it 300+ yards aren't likely "2 fairways over."  That would be a 400 yard drive, give or take a few for the width of these fairways.

Brandon

[Spackler]

I couldn't care less about the person behind me as long as I'm keeping up with the person in front of me. If I can tell that they're striking the ball really well, I will let them play through, or if the group in front is struggling, I'll ask to play through. I can play 18 by myself in about two hours, so if I'm on that pace, I don't rush.

[Tomboys]

My "regular" group of golfers consists of 5 players and we're fortunate that there are some courses nearby that allow us to play a 5-some.  With nobody in front of us, we're able to finish in @ 4 hours.  The courses we play aren't some local pitch and putt.  They're usually about 6400 yards with a slope rating mid 120s to low 130s.  We always keep pace and have even been known to press smaller groups in front of us.  None of us are really good golfers--decent, but nothing to write home about.  We tend to score in the low to mid 80s, but there have been many times where a couple of the guys shot high 90s, even 100.  Yet, those rounds only take @ 4:15.  Also, we don't have a bunch of people just picking up or taking a bunch of "gimmes" on the greens.  We play for money, so penalties (strokes and, if applicable, distance) are counted/enforced and putts are rarely conceded.  What do we do?  Well, we definitely play ready-golf (and we use carts--we're old and lazy, give us a break =)), but we take it further.  We act as psuedo-caddies and spotters for each other.

When I say psuedo-caddies, we will help each do things such as, determine yardages, rake bunkers and pick up clubs.  However, we don't help each other read greens.  For instance, if my bud riding in the same cart with me is up first to hit, I don't just sit in the cart and wait for him to play his shot.  I jump out to get him a yardage while he "surveys" his lie and determines his target.  I'll say something like, "150 center, pin back should be about 160, slight wind in our face, play it 165".  Since he already has the other information necessary to hit his shot, it's just a question of selecting a club for the distance he wants and making the swing.  When it's my turn to hit, he provides me with the same distance info.  As far as raking bunkers, if a player plays out of the bunker and is furthest from the hole, someone (usually closest to the pin) will go and rake the bunker instead.  This way, the rest of us don't waste time waiting for the player to rake the bunker and make his way onto the green.  Also, if necessary, someone may mark another player's ball on the green to expedite the next shot (putt).

When it comes to being a spotter, most of the group will keep an eye on the shot being hit.  For instance, I'll hit a wayward tee or approach shot.  One or even two of my buds will have a bead on it and drive straight to my ball.  Once one of them finds it, he lets me know where it is exactly and drives over to play his/their next shot(s).  When I get to my ball, my bud riding in the cart with me that day does the yardage calculations per above and I play my shot.  Now, on approach shots, we don't all huddle behind the player playing the shot--again, ready-golf.  We do however, drive to the approximate area of where our balls are, but we watch the player making the shot even if he's on the other side of the fairway.  We do this because the more eyes we have watching a shot gives us a better chance of finding the ball.  Also, at certain times, not being directly behind the player may give us a better angle to see where the shot comes down.  The whole premise of being a spotter is to avoid or at least minimize the amount of time spent looking for wayward shots.

I guess the best way to sum what we do is to say that while our golf scores--and ensuing money won or lost--are individualized, our overall approach is teamwork.

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Regardless who's going to pay full price for a round of golf and not be able to keep a real golf score?

The guys I played with this weekend.  I should apologize to the golfing community for inviting them.  I learned a valuable lesson that I won't need to repeat.  They're cousins who played once 8 years ago.  The fact that they couldn't hit the ball can be forgiven.  The fact that they didn't know basic things about playing golf like:

1.  You should take turns.  Don't everybody go all at once.

2.  Don't hit your ball when someone is in front of you.  Sure, you aren't likely to make contact, but in the rare case you do, you have absolutely no idea where it's going, and it may hit that person 50 yards in front of you.

3.  Don't talk when someone is swinging.

4.  When you hit 15 strokes on a hole only 50 yards from the tee box, just pick up and play the next one.  Don't keep grinding it out.

The marshall was on us at hole #2, about 45 minutes into the round.  I finally convinced them to play from the ladies tees and just tee up every ball they hit.  I'm still trying to get over it.  I bet they shot 200.  It was a 6 hour round in bitterly cold conditions.

[bplewis24]

^^^ And that's why I don't let everybody who pretends to be interested in golfing go out with me.  Case in point, I started a new job about 4 months ago.  2 months ago some of the co-workers found out I golf a lot through random discussion.  Several of them have indicated they would like to play with me.  Even the receptionist said she wants to go with me sometime (I tend to leave early every Friday afternoon to get in 9 holes).  I might consider taking some of these people up to a par 3 course for recreation/practice, but I wouldn't take them to a full length course to play with me.  There's just no way.

Brandon

[delbertfarbe]

My weekly foursome does it every week with all four of us walking in 3 hours 30 minutes, give or take 10 minutes (6700 yards).  We don't run from shot to shot, we are just ready when it's our turn.  We don't roam like a heard of animals from one guy's shot to the next guys shot.  I think this is one of the things slowing groups down.  We always get the first tee time on the weekends, or else this wouldn't be possible.  We generally have a threesome or foursome on carts behind us and they almost never have to wait on us, the only exception is when we look for a lost ball.  Our handicaps range from 7 to 16 so it's not like we play tee-fairway-green all round.

[nevets88]

Originally Posted by delbertfarbe

My weekly foursome does it every week with all four of us walking in 3 hours 30 minutes, give or take 10 minutes (6700 yards).  We don't run from shot to shot, we are just ready when it's our turn.  We don't roam like a heard of animals from one guy's shot to the next guys shot.  I think this is one of the things slowing groups down.  We always get the first tee time on the weekends, or else this wouldn't be possible.  We generally have a threesome or foursome on carts behind us and they almost never have to wait on us, the only exception is when we look for a lost ball.  Our handicaps range from 7 to 16 so it's not like we play tee-fairway-green all round.

If only everyone were like your group. Big Fat Sigh