The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[RussUK]

I added a little more to my last post.

Key #2 is Weight Forward at impact. Pressure increases under the trail foot on the backswing, whether it's a S&T; swing or a Leadbetter swing. Just because the pressure shifts back (right) doesn't mean you "shift" your body right.

Yes, that's part of how the head remains steady. Lead shoulder moves down and back. Shoulders and hips turn at right angles to the address inclination.

Ah, that makes more sense. The S & T book isnt the clearest of books especially in regards to the weight not shifting. So am i right in saying that Key 1 links directly to Key 2 in that as the head is steady and the body is staying centered, they main shift should feel to be going forward (to target) rather than back then forward? (if that makes sense)

Sorry if im getting muddled, us Yorkshiremen are simple folk!

[metbid]

I have problems with weight forward when playing...finding myself 'light' on my left side.  This S&T method looks as if it would benefit me.  Can you point me to any drills for practicing it?

[taxgolf]

Darren Hopwood

[iacas]

So is S&T still a valid and worthwile pattern? Reason i ask is that for the past year or so the book has been sat staring at me from the book shelf. I tried it before i got a bad injury and just never got back into it. Anyway, i want to be more consistent and feel a mechanically simpler swing may be the ticket.

It's not necessarily mechanically simpler. It's still a golf swing. You still do the same types of things. Your wrists still hinge, the hips still turn, etc. The only "mechanically simpler" golf swings out there remove levers and speed and thus distance.

Im ok on the setup (have a tendancy for too wide a stance and for left knee to collapse inwards towards ball), left shoulder down etc., but have trouble understanding how to get the hips to slide and the "jumping" they mention coming into impact.

That's something that's found in every golf swing. We talk about it as Key #2 - weight forward. The hips slide forward and then the knees extend to "jump" a bit.

Having watched a clip of Mike Bennet from 2009 the slo mo looks like in transistions into the downswing by leaning left, as if someone is gentley pushing him towards the target.

I don't know if he's doing too much of that, but many people will "screw up" S&T by letting their head go down and/or forward, often during the backswing.

S&T is one swing pattern. 5SK is any valid swing pattern. To me, that kind of says which way I'd go.

Oh, I meant to add this. The very good S&T instructors - after all, I was one years ago - don't exaggerate things, they don't "pervert" (for lack of a better word) the swing pattern too much like so many do. They're tough to find. But Darren would probably be one of them. The poor ones almost only know S&T, the good ones just use the info and pieces of the pattern where they fit.

[Mike P]

I seem to be a collector of golf teaching books, as many around here are.  I have one of the Jim Hardy books, the second one.  I am curious as to what are the fundamental differences between Hardy teaching methods and those of Stack and Tilt book?  Thanks and sorry if this has been discussed before.  I did a search and could find anything on this.

[Crazycanuck44]

The poor ones almost only know S&T, the good ones just use the info and pieces of the pattern where they fit.

Bingo I went from the S&T to get better impact but after reading other threads I kinda used what was good for me.

[RussUK]

It's not necessarily mechanically simpler. It's still a golf swing. You still do the same types of things. Your wrists still hinge, the hips still turn, etc. The only "mechanically simpler" golf swings out there remove levers and speed and thus distance.

That's something that's found in every golf swing. We talk about it as Key #2 - weight forward. The hips slide forward and then the knees extend to "jump" a bit.

I don't know if he's doing too much of that, but many people will "screw up" S&T by letting their head go down and/or forward, often during the backswing.

S&T is one swing pattern. 5SK is any valid swing pattern. To me, that kind of says which way I'd go.

Oh, I meant to add this. The very good S&T instructors - after all, I was one years ago - don't exaggerate things, they don't "pervert" (for lack of a better word) the swing pattern too much like so many do. They're tough to find. But Darren would probably be one of them. The poor ones almost only know S&T, the good ones just use the info and pieces of the pattern where they fit.

Thanks Erik, the jumping makes more sense now. Im overthinking that part instead of letting it happen as part of the hips sliding forward.

Im going to concentrate initially on the 1st 2 keys (in order) and on keeping my stance at a comfortable width (little under shoulder width). I also need to believe im myself a little more!.

How come you decides to move awate from S&T?

[mvmac]

How come you decides to move awate from S&T?

[Phil McGleno]

[CONTENTEMBED=/t/60820/purestrike-5sk-stack-and-tilt-etc layout=inline]​[/CONTENTEMBED]

I will also leave this here-Andy and Mike and their "science". [CONTENTEMBED=/t/65681/s-t-2-0-dvds-and-pressure-weight-forward-an-examination layout=block][/CONTENTEMBED]

[RussUK]

Nuff said!

Not as controversial as i was hoping for though

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvmac

Nuff said!

Not as controversial as i was hoping for though

Right, in America controversies are not nearly as juicy as in the UK.

[taxgolf]

Scrolled through the Posts and other the threads. I have no idea what to make of some things. I found certain info and Numbers about weight versus presure very helpful. S&T in Europe is pretty hard to find, there are a few teachers in Holland. I think a lot of instruction is still based upon wrong info, like a level hip turn etc. So we have a Mountain to climb. Yet, I have the feeling, although firmly based in the S&T info, they evolved and use more data and or info to implement in a students swing. I think everybody should evolve. S&T helps me very much, though I doubt i fit in the model. I do not take lessons that much. Given thelimited time I can spend on golf taking the choice of taking a lesson or play, I choose to play. Now and then I het a check up, some pointers. I use some specific drills, 5sk drills included. I like to watch clips on the tube, Joe Mayo, 5sk. I feel they help me and I would like to say that I swing more centered, not fighting the pressure on my right leg in the back swing. Just my 2 cents. I had one marvelous day with Mike and Andy. It makes me a bit sad to read that somewhere along the line there is some friction (or more than that) between 5sk and S&T.; Not sure what to make of it all, but I guess live goes on. When 2 people fight, most of the times there are 2 to blame. I find the info on this forum very open and helpfull and at the end of the day, it is benificial to me. Philip Bonifanti in the UK is also S&T certified.

[scopek]

Nuff said!

Not as controversial as i was hoping for though

I'd try Darren Hopwood. I've never had a lesson with him, but I've had direct contact with him online. He is much more about having students develop a functional golf swing vs. being a "literal" S&T instructor. He's very knowledgable and a great guy.

[ghalfaire]

Oh, I meant to add this. The very good S&T instructors - after all, I was one years ago - don't exaggerate things, they don't "pervert" (for lack of a better word) the swing pattern too much like so many do. They're tough to find. But Darren would probably be one of them. The poor ones almost only know S&T, the good ones just use the info and pieces of the pattern where they fit.

I really like this response and truer words were never spoken.  Good instructors will consider that not all of us were born with the athletic abilities of PGA pros and/or have suffer injures in our lives the make some of the "conventional" moves more difficult, maybe impossible, for us.  I was never really able to take the club back without swaying (moving the head) because of some old injuries I suffered. So I am grateful to my present teacher as he is the one that told me "I don't really teach or know how to teach the SnT but why don't we try you keeping more weigh on you left leg during the swing".  For me this one statement probably kept me playing golf as I was about to give it up as I just was not improving.  So, for me anyway, finding a Pro that was willing to try something other than "conventional" moves has significantly improved my skill set and lower my handicap.

Sort of an aside I guess I don't try to do any SnT swing moves other than the set up and keep the weight forward.  But I have seen that by keeping the weight up front (feels like it anyway) that some SnT things just happen. For instance I can see my left shoulder does go down more than it used to.  But for the first time in my golf journey I feel stable over the ball and as a result feel like I can swing the club with some enthusiasm, e.g. I don't have any tendency to steer the club when I feel stable.  I don't think my longest drives are any longer but there are more of them (especially more toward the hole)  and thus my average is distance is going up.

BTW I still am with this Pro and he still thinks we did the right thing, and so do I,  even though this weight forward isn't something he would tell most of his other students.

[taxgolf]

So I am grateful to my present teacher as he is the one that told me "I don't really teach or know how to teach the SnT but why don't we try you keeping more weigh on you left leg during the swing".  F

Such a simple sentence, yet a whole lot of teachers refuse to even try it and/or willing to discus it. I thin you have a good teacher. Enjoy.

[ghalfaire]

Slowly but surely, got my email yesterday and handicap is down another 1/2 stroke (actually 0.6 but who's counting?).

[Kujan]

My SnT feel is initially just enough weight on the front leg to make it possible to tilt in order to remain stacked as I bring the hands in and the shoulder down.

[Kujan]

SnT helps me to be a better ball striker.