Let singles through please!!!!!

[rkim291968]

9 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

"Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through." 

I think the above guideline has to be viewed in context of the round being played.  Where a course has a light mix of 4-somes and 3-somes, of course faster groups should be allowed to play through, regardless of the size of the group.  I do not believe it was ever the intent of the writer(s) of that guideline to apply it to a public access course on a beautiful Saturday in June where every tee time is filled and every group is waiting on the group in front much of the time. On a relatively full course, there are no "faster moving" groups.

To take the above statement as a blanket rule that a single (or 2-some) must always be invited to play through makes no sense.

Agreed.   Letting any group pass through when the course is full always means delay for every group except for the group that is passing.  What did Spock say in situation like this?  The need of many outweighs ....

A week ago, a group behind us keep complaining about my group being slow.   Except, it was the tournament group in front of us that was slowing us down.   A clueless marshal asked me to let the group behind pass and I told him, let's wait a few holes.   If we let the behind group pass, they would just wait on the tournament group, so on and so on.   A few holes later, the group behind was nowhere to be seen.   They were a hole behind us and finished that way!

(PS: the impatient group started to hit into us, or before we left the green.   I can also hear them complaining loud behind us.   I told the marshal that I am NOT going to reward their bad behavior by letting them through only to have them repeat the process with the tournament group. )

[saevel25]

I am not sure how many courses do this anymore. I remember it being pretty common practice in NE Ohio for courses to not let anything other than a 3-some or 4-some off before noon. If you were a single or two-some you couldn't get a morning tee-time on the weekend. 

[Grumpter]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

I am not sure how many courses do this anymore. I remember it being pretty common practice in NE Ohio for courses to not let anything other than a 3-some or 4-some off before noon. If you were a single or two-some you couldn't get a morning tee-time on the weekend. 

I know of one course like that in this area. Otherwise I have seen websites where it will not allow singles to start a tee time but they can add on to an existing tee time. Then there are places that don't allow singles to even fill out a 2-some or 3-some. Since most of my rounds I play as a single, joining up with another group, it limits the rounds I play at those courses. When I do have a 2, 3 or 4-some I will usually opt for a different course. No sense in giving them my business.

[ghalfaire]

Like most issues there is always two sides.  I play as a single at times but am usually not in a hurry so I just make it a practice round and use the time to do that if the course is crowded.  So I probably don't identify with the OP's problem. If some single, twosome, or threesome catches me I just suggest we join up.  

The other side is I play on a course that during the week doesn't have any restrictions on size of the group up to a foursome.  So if you're out with your foursome and there is an abundance of smaller, thus faster, groups or individuals behind you, then if you continue to let people play through you'll find yourself on the course for 5 or more hours.  Just because you're in a foursome I don't think you're obligated to do this.  So in my opinion people who play in less than a foursome should not necessarily expect to be allowed to play through even if there is open space.  I am believer in etiquette but it works both ways.  So why don't the two twosomes behind my foursome join up and make a foursome instead of gripping about my foursome's 3 hour 40 minute pace of play and/or expect me to let them play through when I have already let two other groups through?

[Aflighter]

Dont get me wrong.We let singles go thru but theres been a couple times where everybody is waiting and letting a single go thru only slows it down more because every group ahead of us will be waiting too when they let single thru.It does depend on the situation though and singles dont generally slow us down its the twosums, threesums that cant seem to play faster than a foursome.

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, Aflighter said:

Dont get me wrong.We let singles go thru but theres been a couple times where everybody is waiting and letting a single go thru only slows it down more because every group ahead of us will be waiting too when they let single thru.It does depend on the situation though and singles dont generally slow us down its the twosums, threesums that cant seem to play faster than a foursome.

But after the single passes, there's a gap that they can then close to get right back to where they were.

Again, unless the course is truly packed full, letting a single through should be the SOP.

[Jmdmbike]

I sometimes play as a single, but only if the course is not busy. If the course is truly packed and all tee times booked, I would expect the course would pair the single up with a 2 or 3 ball. At least that's been my experience. 

[Slowcelica]

I frequently play as a single and if the course is packed I will join up with eithe the group behind or infront of me, if they are not 4 somes. 

It should not be a big deal to let a faster group play through if there is no one in front of the slower group. Also there shouldnt be much of a delay if you do it right. Just last week a friend and I were playing and a single came up behind us and was waiting for us to hit for a hole. So on the next hole a par 3 we hit our tee shots, and then once up to the green waived him up, then hit our second shot. He then came up, putted out and teed off on the next hole. We had to wait on the next tee box no more then a few minutes.

[CR McDivot]

Perhaps we have missed an important point here.

The courses I play will always hook a single into a threesome on busy days. Singles may may only reserve a tee time if that time is already occupied by a twosome or threesome. Twosomes will be combined on these types of days. Else the single will be a walk on and may have to wait for an open slot.

The only time a single will go out alone is when the course is sparsely populated.

It's called course management.

I never expect to play as a single or twosome when the course is busy. Who in the world should?

If you play as a single and find yourself running into two or three groups in front either the course is poorly managed or you have self inflicted pain caused by unrealistic expectations.

Edited November 7, 2015 by CR McDivot

[rkim291968]

11 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I am not sure how many courses do this anymore. I remember it being pretty common practice in NE Ohio for courses to not let anything other than a 3-some or 4-some off before noon. If you were a single or two-some you couldn't get a morning tee-time on the weekend. 

Some courses where I am at do not allow single to book on busy days.  They can take their chances and show up in case someone cancels, or does not show up.

[BuckeyeNut]

I play as a single often and would like to weigh-in.....................

Firstly:  I would never play as a single if the course was crowded and there was nowhere to go.  The only time I do so is when there aren't many groups on the course and I think I can "haul azz" without many hang-ups.

 

With that said, a single has NO STANDING.............   if a single catches a 4-some, they aren't obligated to wave you through.  It's up to the single to determine if there are empty holes ahead, and picking the spot to best "SKIP PAST" the 4-some.   If the course is sparsely populated, there will be ample opportunity to play a "MAKE UP" hole for the hole skipped.   that's how I roll......  if you play alone, don't expect to be waved through.  

[Fourputt]

12 hours ago, CR McDivot said:

Perhaps we have missed an important point here.

The courses I play will always hook a single into a threesome on busy days. Singles may may only reserve a tee time if that time is already occupied by a twosome or threesome. Twosomes will be combined on these types of days. Else the single will be a walk on and may have to wait for an open slot.

The only time a single will go out alone is when the course is sparsely populated.

It's called course management.

I never expect to play as a single or twosome when the course is busy. Who in the world should?

If you play as a single and find yourself running into two or three groups in front either the course is poorly managed or you have self inflicted pain caused by unrealistic expectations.

Or just possibly the course is unwilling to let a tee time go by unused just because of an odd policy (and to lose the revenue as well just sounds stupid to me).  When I was working as a starter, I would attempt to pair up a single or twosome when they called for reservations, but it wasn't always possible.  If a player called in asking for a reservation around 9:00 and I only have an open tee time at 9:15 (maybe due to a cancellation), and the next opening I have for a single is 12:30, then he's going to get that 9:15 time.  It was never course policy to refuse a customer's money just because he might end up playing alone.  I would warn him that he was by himself at the moment, and with a full course in front he would probably not be invited to play through since there would be no openings from him to slide into.   It would make for a pretty slow feeling round for him.

On the day of play, if I had a situation like that on the tee sheet, I would still try and get him hooked up with someone else.  I might have a foursome reserved but they show up one player short, then I'd try to put the single with them.  some days that worked out, other days it didn't.  We always tried to hook players up in larger groups up to 4, and on busy days a single was almost guaranteed to be with others, even if he was the first to take that tee slot, because we had a lot of singles and twosomes make reservations or walk on, so it was logical to pair them up.

There is nothing inherently bad about having a tee time occupied by one player - his money is as good as anyone else's.  He certainly doesn't adversely affect the play on the course.  He is the one who will be doing a lot of waiting, not the other way around.

[CR McDivot]

33 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

...If a player called in asking for a reservation around 9:00 and I only have an open tee time at 9:15 (maybe due to a cancellation), and the next opening I have for a single is 12:30, then he's going to get that 9:15 time.  It was never course policy to refuse a customer's money just because he might end up playing alone.  I would warn him that he was by himself at the moment, and with a full course in front he would probably not be invited to play through since there would be no openings from him to slide into.   It would make for a pretty slow feeling round for him.

On the day of play, if I had a situation like that on the tee sheet, I would still try and get him hooked up with someone else.  I might have a foursome reserved but they show up one player short, then I'd try to put the single with them.  some days that worked out, other days it didn't.  We always tried to hook players up in larger groups up to 4, and on busy days a single was almost guaranteed to be with others, even if he was the first to take that tee slot, because we had a lot of singles and twosomes make reservations or walk on, so it was logical to pair them up...

Thus, you practiced good management of traffic on the course, while encouraging reasonable expectations of the singles and walk ons.

BTW - I don't think that refusing reservations of singles unless there is an open 2 or 3 some is odd when they are encouraged to come in and wait for the next opening. Singles usually don't have difficulty walking on and playing alone when the course is not busy, and can often find a game with others if they wish.

Edited November 7, 2015 by CR McDivot

[Fourputt]

34 minutes ago, CR McDivot said:

Thus, you practiced good management of traffic on the course, while encouraging reasonable expectations of the singles and walk ons.

BTW - I don't think that refusing reservations of singles unless there is an open 2 or 3 some is odd when they are encouraged to come in and wait for the next opening. Singles usually don't have difficulty walking on and playing alone when the course is not busy, and can often find a game with others if they wish.

That's all well and good, but after working in the starter booth for 5 years, I can tell you that it isn't that straightforward.  I had days, even weekdays, when I could not find a hole for a single to pair him with another group for more than 2½ hours (my record was just over 4 hours without even a threesome to put him with).  

There were a few times when sending him out alone after a group cancellation or no-show was the only viable option.  I had days where my wait list had 10 players on it in a mix of singles and twosomes and I struggled to get any of them on the course.  Other days, the timing was right and I got walk-ons out almost as fast as they checked in with me.  

Once in a long while I'd get a single or twosome who insisted on not being paired up with anyone.  All I could tell them was I'd try, but no guarantees.  Even if I had an open slot to write them in, I couldn't assure them that nobody else would walk in and fill it up before the time came up.  The only way that could be guaranteed is if they paid for all four players, and that never happened.

[DaveP043]

On 11/7/2015, 3:12:48, BuckeyeNut said:

With that said, a single has NO STANDING.............   if a single catches a 4-some, they aren't obligated to wave you through.  

This is the way I was raised in golf, my understand was that a single has no standing.  That is absolutely NOT the policy of either the USGA or the R&A any more.  According to the Etiquette section:

"It is a group's responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through."

"The term "group" includes a single player."

It is the responsibility of the slower group to invite the faster group to play through.  

As to the pairing up of strangers to make full groups, I think that's only proper management.  For one or two players to insist on NOT being paired with anyone on a busy course is selfish, in my opinion, and generally leads to that group having to wait.quite a bit.  Its interesting to note that you can get a tee time at the Old Course in St Andrews with two or more players, and you do NOT have to accept being paired up with anyone else.  Its one of the few things about St. Andrews that I don't like.  

 

[Fourputt]

On 11/7/2015, 1:12:48, BuckeyeNut said:

I play as a single often and would like to weigh-in.....................

Firstly:  I would never play as a single if the course was crowded and there was nowhere to go.  The only time I do so is when there aren't many groups on the course and I think I can "haul azz" without many hang-ups.

 

With that said, a single has NO STANDING.............   if a single catches a 4-some, they aren't obligated to wave you through.  It's up to the single to determine if there are empty holes ahead, and picking the spot to best "SKIP PAST" the 4-some.   If the course is sparsely populated, there will be ample opportunity to play a "MAKE UP" hole for the hole skipped.   that's how I roll......  if you play alone, don't expect to be waved through.  

100% wrong.  A single has the same standing as anyone else on the course.  Yours is an outdated viewpoint which has long since been revised.

[shanksalot]

I think there is a lesson to learned here. When playing and you have a hole open in front of you let the group behind you (assuming you are holding them up) go through. It does not matter if it is a single, twosome, threesome or foursome. Step aside and let them through. 

[rkim291968]

4 hours ago, shanksalot said:

I think there is a lesson to learned here. When playing and you have a hole open in front of you let the group behind you (assuming you are holding them up) go through. It does not matter if it is a single, twosome, threesome or foursome. Step aside and let them through. 

Yeah, it comes down to exercising common sense, and good etiquette.   But these threads pop up b/c, like all other groups, golfers have their share of the clueless.    Like the other day when we were still putting our clubs away on green area, a guy in the group behind decides to hit into green from 100+ yards out.  He must have been a former PGA player to know for sure he can put the ball on green.   Not!  His ball missed us by a foot and landed on top of our cart on the fly.  Had it either of us (me or my wife) on the head, we could have needed medical help.