Etiquette: Having lunch after 9

[Shindig]

I believe you when you say that you wouldn't be in that position under normal circumstances. In my case, it was client golf - treating a few industry associates that do a lot of business with my company to a friendly round. Unfortunately, leaving that "idiot" behind, wasn't a good option, as I'm sure you can understand. At any rate, we seem to have gotten a bit sidetracked here. And I agree with the majority that a sit down lunch at the turn is not advisable. My only addition to this thread was my opinion that there are certain circumstances when allowing a single group to play past you at the turn might be a reasonable middle ground in the case of an unexpected delay.

In fairness to you, Talega is set up really great for 9th-tee-to-snack-shack, including the ability to order from the 8th green/9th tee. It's also set up really poorly for getting to the 10th tee, or back from the 10th tee if you need to. (If this exact situation happens again, I suggest calling the clubhouse and having them deliver the sandwich. They've brought me a cart at #12 once before when one died on me there.)

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I don't know who that was aimed at, but I said that we wouldn't have been in that position because 3 of us would have played on while our idiot fourth went back to get his stupid sandwich.  As I said, it wasn't our fault, nor the fault of the groups behind us that he was delayed, so there is no reason for anyone except him to pay for it.  My group would not have lost their place in the flow.  I've done exactly what I describe more than once over the many years that I've played golf, and the one who made the mistake and caused the issue has never had a problem with doing that.

A busy course is a busy course.  If they have a medical issue which might cause such delays, then it's just possible that they'll have to plan their play during non-peak times.  If the delay is going to take more than one hole, then maybe the problem precludes playing golf at all.  Sometimes we have to just give up things we love for no particular fault of our own.

Wow... I hope that is made clear to everyone before they pay their green fee. Seems rather harsh to me.

I have no issues with handicapped golf.  I've played with a paraplegic who had to use an ADA cart (which our course supplied free of charge) and even had to drive on the greens and have some assistance when his ball wound up in a location that his cart couldn't go.  The guy kept up with the pace of play.  He didn't expect anyone to have to wait on him, or treat him specially.  Yes his companion did have to get his ball twice when he couldn't retrieve it, but he also said that if it wasn't easy to get at, to just forget it and he'd play another.  He was considerate of our needs, and that made us very conscious of being considerate of him.  He was a good playing companion, and I saw him at the course often, although I only played with him that one time.  Even though he was well able to keep up, he still usually played on weekday afternoons when the course was somewhat slower.

I do have an issue with anyone who feels that the course should modify any of their policies which affect other golfers to accommodate someone with a chronic physical or medical problem.  That sort of condition affects the entire course, not just the group he's playing with.  For that reason, he should have the consideration to limit his play to off peak times, when he has the luxury of stopping as needed and restarting when he can without interfering with the flow of the course.  I'm all for accommodating anyone as long as it doesn't adversely affect other paying customers.  If that's a problem for you, then I guess we have a difference of opinion.

However, that's all .    This is supposed to be about able bodied players and how much time they take at the turn.

[rehmwa]

I would say this, talk to the starter and let him know that your friend unwisely chose Taco Bell for breakfast and might be a while or whatever the situation. Most starters I know are reasonable people.

Communication is a great thing.  This is just a simple and courteous philosophy - "TALK" to the starter about your intent (if it's a quick bathroom stop, or a detour to get snacks or a meal, or whatever).  Of course, it only works at a course where there actually is staff there in the first place.

In that vein, I'd also like to point this thread out to golf course managers, starters, etc.  If you do have the occasional issues at the turn due to slow food service (or whatever), it's a great idea to post a menu at the 7th or 8th tee box (whatever, allows lead time to food prep) and the phone number for the grill.  It's great way to make extra revenue, and delight your customers when someone can place an order and have it waiting for them at the turn (either at the food station, or even waiting for them at the 10th tee box).  It's also takes away the excuse for the customer as they had the opportunity to call ahead and can't now blame the staff.  It's not a small thing, it can be 'featured' as a perk of the club even and will improve the course's reputation.

for the general thread - slow play is slow play - I don't much care why.  taking too long looking, getting backed up because you have a slow player, taking too long getting a sandwich,,,,it's all the same to me.  you might have to let others through, skip a hole, etc.  The one example where the player left their snack behind is simple - The cartmate takes his clubs off the cart and plays with the other two, walking.  The 'forgetful' one takes the cart, goes for his snack and drives to 11 or drops whenever he catches up with his cart mate.  If the cartmate is a wuss and can't walk for one round, then they both go back and catch up with the other twosome.  "His" mistake, so he has to miss that hole if playing it would slow down the groups behind him.

I can't even conceive of a 'long lunch' - unless the starters actually just reserve the start of the back nine for them so there is no issue.  (or if everyone is expected to take a defined long lunch so it's factored into the course scheduling.)

[turtleback]

The problem was the 10th tee itself, which was very remote relative to the clubhouse. The snack bar was actually quite accessible coming off the 9th hole, but having to double back from the 10th tee was an ordeal.

No the first problem was the idiot who left his sandwich.  The second problem was your willingness to inconvenience other golfers because you were concerned about sucking up to your client.  The third problem was your willingness to put the consequences for the problems your group caused on other golfers.  IMO

The other funny thing about this whole thread is that in my experience the people who think it is OK to hold up other people are usually the very ones who, when held up themselves, scream the loudest.  But maybe that is just MY experience.

[flopster]

No the first problem was the idiot who left his sandwich.  The second problem was your willingness to inconvenience other golfers because you were concerned about sucking up to your client.  The third problem was your willingness to put the consequences for the problems your group caused on other golfers.  IMO

The other funny thing about this whole thread is that in my experience the people who think it is OK to hold up other people are usually the very ones who, when held up themselves, scream the loudest.  But maybe that is just MY experience.

What I have observed is they seem to like to blame the course or restaurant rather than accept the responsibility of maintaining the pace of play, they just can't seem to grasp the concept, I just wonder what they say to the boss when they show up late for work? "It was that stupid traffics fault" and the boss says " the same stupid traffic that is there almost everyday?".

[whatwoodtigerdo]

No the first problem was the idiot who left his sandwich.  The second problem was your willingness to inconvenience other golfers because you were concerned about sucking up to your client.  The third problem was your willingness to put the consequences for the problems your group caused on other golfers.  IMO The other funny thing about this whole thread is that in my experience the people who think it is OK to hold up other people are usually the very ones who, when held up themselves, scream the loudest.  But maybe that is just MY experience.

I know what you mean. The other day I went to Taco Bell for lunch and didn't get my drink cup. I went back to the register and she said "Sorry you idiot, you can wait until there are no customers to get your drink". Note: this really didn't happens because customer service doesn't work that way although most of you folks seem to think it's okay for a golf course to act that way. And to the second part how many people could you have possibly been in both situations with to observe their behavior both when holding someone up because they felt like it and being held up to make such a determination. I have played tons of golf with tons of people and my guess would be not enough to make any kind of observation like that. Cool make believe story to try to make your point though. My example before about the beer at 12 on Sunday in NC actually happened to me from a group in front of me. We all got a big kick out of it and waited in line to tee off. But again cool story.

[rob0225]

we saw the group behind us, sneack past us, and teeoff. Then we went after them into the slot so to speak.

Because when you put yourself into the "slot" after them, you have disrupted the pace of play.  Instead of maintaining say 8-10 minutes between groups you've now reduced this time which causes bottlenecks and slow play.

[rob0225]

Nope if I am help up for food, it's the courses fault. But of course you wouldn't blame them. It's all the players fault. The course is infallible. The stupid players just shouldn't want food and just need to pay their money and hurry and get off their damn course before their privilege to play the course is revoked.

You don't have to stop for food at the turn, bring a snack if you think you need one.  Eat after your round is complete.

[newtogolf]

Our club allows us to call ahead to place orders.  They also offer mixed nuts in small container, mini muffins, and other small snacks that you can just take for free if you need a quick snack.  If the snack bar is a big bottleneck problem for a course they should consider incorporating some freebie snacks into the green fees to improve the experience at their course.

[rehmwa]

Because when you put yourself into the "slot" after them, you have disrupted the pace of play.  Instead of maintaining say 8-10 minutes between groups you've now reduced this time which causes bottlenecks and slow play.

it's not really so cut and dried - they didn't take an extra slot - they swapped slots

You have 4 groups - 1, 2, 3, 4 and those behind  (the 'lunch' group is 2)

afterwards, you have the same groups - 1, 3, 2, 4, and those behind - other than a transient adjustment (they speed up, then they slow down, then they are back to where they would have been anyway), 4 and after are in the same condition.and if the groups are catching each other at the tee most of the day (bad course loading) then it's a zero effect, frankly.  so.....it depends.......

however, that transition as 3 catches up to 1 can seem painful as 4 had a momentary illusion that the pace was going to pick up......the ripple from it, though, can be a real problem when groups are being dickish to each other

the scenario where the guy left his sandwich is silly though - he goes back for his sandwich while the rest of his group continues to play - he lost the chance to play a hole, but it's his fault.....no need to reorder or delay the lineup

[late347]

Because when you put yourself into the "slot" after them, you have disrupted the pace of play.  Instead of maintaining say 8-10 minutes between groups you've now reduced this time which causes bottlenecks and slow play.

In actuality... the answer is no...

Behind us, was a large gap. Either that group was slow or just there wasn't that many golfers out there that day overall.

But I get your point.

I think in the future we will take shorter breaks definitely. So that the slowing down don't happen, incase the course is busier.

Ian Poulter said in some video that he always recommend recharging the energy level during golf, eating snacks etc... He uses some kind of tablets, so he  says. With nutritional supplaments in them.

I suppose drinking a recovery drink would be ideal though, for performance. To replenish the nutrients and also re-hydrate. Liquids tend to absorb in shorter time also.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob0225

Because when you put yourself into the "slot" after them, you have disrupted the pace of play.  Instead of maintaining say 8-10 minutes between groups you've now reduced this time which causes bottlenecks and slow play.

it's not really so cut and dried - they didn't take an extra slot - they swapped slots

You have 4 groups - 1, 2, 3, 4 and those behind  (the 'lunch' group is 2)

afterwards, you have the same groups - 1, 3, 2, 4, and those behind - other than a transient adjustment (they speed up, then they slow down, then they are back to where they would have been anyway), 4 and after are in the same condition.and if the groups are catching each other at the tee most of the day (bad course loading) then it's a zero effect, frankly.  so.....it depends.......

however, that transition as 3 catches up to 1 can seem painful as 4 had a momentary illusion that the pace was going to pick up......the ripple from it, though, can be a real problem when groups are being dickish to each other

the scenario where the guy left his sandwich is silly though - he goes back for his sandwich while the rest of his group continues to play - he lost the chance to play a hole, but it's his fault.....no need to reorder or delay the lineup

That only holds true if the group that passes you hurries to close the gap you just created, then you rush to close up with them, and every group behind you does the same until the flow equalizes.  Otherwise, every group behind you is just pushed back (in essence has to wait) an extra tee time to fit you in, and the gap you created by losing your place just remains a gap, benefiting nobody.

Your group is B, with A preceding you and C and D following.  The front 9 is like this:

A---------B---------C---------D

The 10th hole becomes this:

A--------- ---------C-------B-D-E-----F----------G

You just created an unnecessary logjam.

[rehmwa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

That only holds true if the group that passes you hurries to close the gap you just created, then you rush to close up with them,

yup - I noted "transient adjustment".  Agree it takes more than one hole to close it up.  I have no disagreement with your thoughts there.  And I like the use of the spacing to show time.

If overall it's really slow (Group A and in front of them), then the gap will close pretty crispy anyway

If it's not really slow, then you likely don't have a problem in the first place

I think  what you are showing is a real problem mostly when C is really slow and causing a log jam in the first place - then, inserting B after C is truly adding another group behind the jam.  with no hope of closing the gap...Then, until C starts letting groups through (i.e., they recognize that there's a big gap in front of them and have the consideration to own it and act accordingly)

i.e.,

front 9

A....B................C....D....E....F

back 9 (long lunch)

A......................C....B....D....E.....F

What would suck for C, is the marshall will note the huge gap between A and C (now that B isn't plugging in there) and maybe forces them to skip ahead......but maybe that should have happened on the front 9 anyway....

Quote:

The 10th hole becomes this:

A--------- ---------C-------B-D-E-----F----------G

That's a pretty crowded 10th hole...must be a par 26

[whatwoodtigerdo]

That only holds true if the group that passes you hurries to close the gap you just created, then you rush to close up with them, and every group behind you does the same until the flow equalizes.  Otherwise, every group behind you is just pushed back (in essence has to wait) an extra tee time to fit you in, and the gap you created by losing your place just remains a gap, benefiting nobody. Your group is B, with A preceding you and C and D following.  The front 9 is like this: A---------B---------C---------D The 10th hole becomes this: A--------- ---------C-------B-D-E-----F----------G You just created an unnecessary logjam.

That's an exaggeration. If we work under the assumptions that no other group is stopping, which is unlikely, the turn takes up to 15 minutes from green to stop to box and the 9th's POP is 12 minute par 4 with all shot being equal time which is not likely but we will go with it. Then it would be more like this: A..... ......C.....BD..... .....E....F And that's on a packed course where everyone is keeping up perfectly with no bad holes on at least 8 or 9 and maybe further. Also the POP in this scenario is probably not being kept anyway because everyone is waiting for the 9th green to clear. Not sure why it quoted like that but I highlighted your 2nd scenario.

[saevel25]

Players who stop for refreshments after planning nine holes must occupy the next tee before the following players arrive at the tee or they may lose their position on the golf course.  When players exit the 9th green, if the 10th tee is unoccupied because a group remains seated on the veranda, the 9th hole exiting players have the right to proceed immediately to the 10th tee and play through the veranda group without regard to where other players are on the 10th hole, providing the advancing group does not utilize the veranda for refreshment.

Rules on pace of play from a course I am going to be playing this Sunday.

[dsc123]

That's an exaggeration. If we work under the assumptions that no other group is stopping, which is unlikely, the turn takes up to 15 minutes from green to stop to box and the 9th's POP is 12 minute par 4 with all shot being equal time which is not likely but we will go with it. Then it would be more like this:

A..... ......C.....BD..... .....E....F

And that's on a packed course where everyone is keeping up perfectly with no bad holes on at least 8 or 9 and maybe further. Also the POP in this scenario is probably not being kept anyway because everyone is waiting for the 9th green to clear.

Not sure why it quoted like that but I highlighted your 2nd scenario.

If pace of play is about 12 minutes, then it looks somethign like this:

0:00 - A hitting off 10th tee;     B walking off 9th green;    C hitting into 9th green;   D on 9th tee;                E walking off 8;            F approach shot on 8.

0:06 - A approach shot on 10; B hitting tee shot on 10;   C walking off 9th Green;  D hitting into 9th green; E on 9th tee box;          F walking off 8.

0:12 - A walking off 10;           B  approach on 10;          C teeing off on 10;           D walking off 9th green; E hitting into 9th green; F on 9th tee

0:24 - A teeing off 11;             B walking off 10;             C; hitting approach on 10; D; teeing off on 10;       E walking off 9;             F hitting approach on 9.

0:36 - A approach on 11;        B teeing off 11;               C walking off 10;               D approach 10;            E; teeing off 10;            F walking off 9.

0:48 - F tees off on 10.

So in 48 minutes you'd have 6 groups teeing off #10.

In your scenario, with B taking a 15 minute pit stop:

0:00 - A hitting off 10th tee; B walks off goes for snack ;   C hitting into 9th green;       D on 9th tee;                               E walking off 8;                         F approach shot on 8.

0:06 - A approach shot on 10; B still in proshop 10;             C walking off 9th Green;      D hitting into 9th green;                E on 9th tee box;                      F walking off 8.

0:12 - A walking off 10;           C teeing off on 10; B still in proshop ;            D walking off 9th green;                 E hitting into 9th green;             F on 9th tee

0:24 - A teeing off 11;             C hitting approach on 10; B teeing off on 10 ; D teeing off on 10 waiting for B ; E walking off 9;                        F hitting approach on 9.

0:36 - A  approach on 11;       C walking off 10; B approach shot on 10 ; D approach 10 teeing off on 10 ; E teeing off 10 waiting for D ;    F walking off 9.

0:48 - F tees off on 10 waiting for E.

So if you stop for 15 minutes at the turn, only 5 groups get off in that same amount of time, adding 6 minutes to D, E, F and everyone that follows that day.  Other people stopping just compounds the problem.

Edit:  So apparently there's a chart function.

Edit 2: B and D would arrive at the 10th tee at about the same time.  If D teed off first, they could avoid the delay, but everyone after them is still F'd.

[Shindig]

They also offer mixed nuts in small container, mini muffins, and other small snacks that you can just take for free if you need a quick snack.  If the snack bar is a big bottleneck problem for a course they should consider incorporating some freebie snacks into the green fees to improve the experience at their course.

I'm playing the wrong courses. The most I've ever seen is a free tootsie roll in the pro shop.

[rehmwa]

I'm playing the wrong courses. The most I've ever seen is a free tootsie roll in the pro shop.

The most I've ever seen is a Baby Ruth in the swimming pool