Should Divots Be Considered Ground Under Repair?

[DrvFrShow]

Bunker divots. Because some a******* used a back hoe and didn't bother to rake it and your ball ended up in the club head wide trench.

This should be classified as relief from a burrowing animal.

[boogielicious]

Bunker divots. Because some a******* used a back hoe and didn't bother to rake it and your ball ended up in the club head wide trench.

This should be classified as relief from a burrowing animal.

I ran into this yesterday.  The course had removed all the rakes so the bunkers had lots of footprints and swing marks.  Still, I played it as it lies.  This time of year is a good time to practice these shots.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrvFrShow

Bunker divots. Because some a******* used a back hoe and didn't bother to rake it and your ball ended up in the club head wide trench.

This should be classified as relief from a burrowing animal.

I ran into this yesterday.  The course had removed all the rakes so the bunkers had lots of footprints and swing marks.  Still, I played it as it lies.  This time of year is a good time to practice these shots.

Yep.  It would be nice if players would still kick, or use the club and scrape the sand back into some semblance of level, even when there aren't any rakes, but there are too many inconsiderate or clueless golfers.

[ay33660]

Personally I would like divots to be treated as GUR but I can see it could be difficult to determine if it is actually a divot or not.

I have not real problem staying with the current rules.

I do feel that the odds of having a ball end up in a bad unfilled divot varies from course to course.

I usually play at a private club where seed bottles are supplied with push carts and there are boxes with seed to refill the bottles at each tee box.

It is rare to find an unfilled divot.

I recently played at a public course (Swaneset) and I had the misfortune of having my ball roll into a massive unfilled divot. The divot was so deep (because of the fall wet conditions) only the top 1/3 of the golf ball was above the divot. Had to take a penalty and play it as an unplayable lie.

Hard to justify taking an unplayable lie penalty stoke from the middle of the fairway.

[Golfingdad]

Personally I would like divots to be treated as GUR but I can see it could be difficult to determine if it is actually a divot or not.

I'm with all of the guys who say that it should not be treated as GUR, however, I don't think the definition is the issue.  It's the other argument, the one where we feel like we are entitled to a perfect lie in the fairway, yet we are not complaining about good breaks for bad shots.

Think of all the times a tree pitched your ball back into the fairway, or your ball was sitting in the one dead spot in an otherwise sea of 10" high rough.  Or instead of it burying down in the thick bermuda, it sat up all nice and pretty as if it were on a tee.

We don't deserve those exceptionally good breaks any more than we deserve the bad ones that go along with hitting into a divot in the fairway, so what's the justification for wanting to treat it as GUR?  (Besides selective memory) ;)

[Elmer]

I play mostly Muni & Public courses, where most players dont fill their divots and the course does not always fill them either.

I try to play the ball as is!

That being said, I usually play my ball where it lies, unless it is on a rock or a root. I am not going to sacrifice my equipment to hit a ball off a root and be out a wedge because SWMBO would rather feed our kids than repair a club I busted up trying to win a Nassau at a muni!

Of course I have seen many a player take their ball out of an unfilled divot and place the ball directly behind it. I have also seen people search over the course for the perfect lie.

It is their dollar, it is their game and it is their score.

[ay33660]

I'm with all of the guys who say that it should not be treated as GUR, however, I don't think the definition is the issue.  It's the other argument, the one where we feel like we are entitled to a perfect lie in the fairway, yet we are not complaining about good breaks for bad shots.

Think of all the times a tree pitched your ball back into the fairway, or your ball was sitting in the one dead spot in an otherwise sea of 10" high rough.  Or instead of it burying down in the thick bermuda, it sat up all nice and pretty as if it were on a tee.

We don't deserve those exceptionally good breaks any more than we deserve the bad ones that go along with hitting into a divot in the fairway, so what's the justification for wanting to treat it as GUR?  (Besides selective memory) ;)

I agree that golf has good breaks and bad breaks.

The fact that I play at a private club ensures that my odds of landing in unfilled divot is a lot less than someone playing a public course.

So due to something other than the random odds of playing golf, golfers who play at a private course will have less chance of getting this "bad break".

[Golfingdad]

So due to something other than the random odds of playing golf, golfers who play at a private course will have less chance of getting this "bad break".

That's fine, but remember two things:

1. There aren't that many competitions (that I know of) where people are competing against each other from different courses.
2. Much more importantly, I play 95% of my rounds at public/muni courses, and I've had to play my ball out of a divot (sand-filled or otherwise) all of .... ZERO times this year.  It happens so rarely, that I actually remember the last time it happened.  It was last year sometime, and I hit a great shot onto the green - especially considering the circumstances - and made par.

And that very last part is not a trivial note either.  The satisfaction gained from successfully making that shot is something that stuck with me.  I enjoy challenges.  I hate hitting my ball into the trees, but if I'm able to scramble for par, that is much more satisfying than a 2-putt tap-in par.

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrvFrShow

Bunker divots. Because some a******* used a back hoe and didn't bother to rake it and your ball ended up in the club head wide trench.

This should be classified as relief from a burrowing animal.

Quote:

Burrowing Animal

A “ burrowing animal ” is an animal (other than a worm, insect or the like) that makes a hole for habitation or shelter, such as a rabbit, mole, groundhog, gopher or salamander.

Hmm, given that definition and the fact that they do not burrow to make a habitation or shelter, it is tough to make the case that a jackass is a burrowing animal.

[ay33660]

That's fine, but remember two things:

There aren't that many competitions (that I know of) where people are competing against each other from different courses.

Much more importantly, I play 95% of my rounds at public/muni courses, and I've had to play my ball out of a divot (sand-filled or otherwise) all of .... ZERO times this year.  It happens so rarely, that I actually remember the last time it happened.  It was last year sometime, and I hit a great shot onto the green - especially considering the circumstances - and made par.

And that very last part is not a trivial note either.  The satisfaction gained from successfully making that shot is something that stuck with me.  I enjoy challenges.  I hate hitting my ball into the trees, but if I'm able to scramble for par, that is much more satisfying than a 2-putt tap-in par.

Don't want to get off topic with this reply but ......

I am not sure if in point 1 you were referring to my post? I wasn't trying to imply golfers were "competing against each other from different courses". I was just pointing out that because members in a private club are more apt to repair their divots it is less likely that a ball will end up in an unfilled divot.

Now after giving it more thought the small odds of actually landing in an unfilled massive divot probably pales in having an impact on ones handicap.

Also it is not just divots that differentiates the standard of care at a private club here are some others that I can think of:

- our greens are cut by hand daily, in the summer they are double cut and rolled for every weekend

- the amount of sand in the traps are consistent and always raked every morning, during the prime golf season all of the green side traps are ranked by hand

- during the fall and spring punching at least two of the collars in front of the greens are re-leveled as they settle over time

- in the fall the leaves are blown off the fairways and rough daily, we have a machine that suck up the leaves

The impact of the above maintenance difference overshadow the divot issue.

One other observation ...... why are we allowed to fix ball marks on the green. Seems to me they are caused by the actual motion of playing golf just as divots are. They both are not something cause by an outside force. Yet one is able to fix a ball mark that could affect the putt yet not get relief from a divot?

I'm sure this has been discussed before and there is a logical answer for this.

[Fourputt]

Also it is not just divots that differentiates the standard of care at a private club here are some others that I can think of:

- our greens are cut by hand daily, in the summer they are double cut and rolled for every weekend

- the amount of sand in the traps are consistent and always raked every morning, during the prime golf season all of the green side traps are ranked by hand

- during the fall and spring punching at least two of the collars in front of the greens are re-leveled as they settle over time

- in the fall the leaves are blown off the fairways and rough daily, we have a machine that suck up the leaves

The impact of the above maintenance difference overshadow the divot issue.

One other observation ...... why are we allowed to fix ball marks on the green. Seems to me they are caused by the actual motion of playing golf just as divots are. They both are not something cause by an outside force. Yet one is able to fix a ball mark that could affect the putt yet not get relief from a divot?

I'm sure this has been discussed before and there is a logical answer for this.

My former home course was essentially a public muni, yet most of the things you mention were performed there as well.  Greens were hand mowed daily before any golfers got to them (mowers went out on the front and back 1/2 hour before sunrise).  Bunkers were groomed daily, maybe not perfect -not raked by hand, but were better and more consistent than most of the municipal type courses I've played.  Blowers were employed in the fall for leaf control.  Tee boxes were on a regular rotation for releveling (with 36 holes of golf on the facility, that was an ongoing project, like painting the Golden Gate Bridge).

Divots were filled, not only by players but by the rangers and by a service that most courses don't have.  We were part of a tax supported recreation district (although the course was self supporting, and was actually a funding source for the district), and that gave us access to people convicted of minor misdemeanor crimes (DUI, bar fight assaults, etc,) who were sentenced to community service.  We used such free labor, and often sent them out on the course in a cart with a couple of buckets of sand/seed mix to fill divots.  This helped keep the fairways in pretty good shape.

For a facility that was consistently ranked as one of the two busiest courses in the Denver area, they did a very good job of keeping up with the wear and tear.

[rehmwa]

OP topic.

I'd say it depends on the condition of the course.  If the divot problem is completely out of control and bad lies due to divots are excessively worse than what could be reasonably expected?  Sure, I'd call it ground(s) under repair.  But, frankly, in this situation, then the course should have the option to just state it as a local condition.  (then they need to find a way to fix it asap).

If there's a normal level of divots?  play it where it lies.

If a course is in that bad of shape, I'd likely not return there, we have plenty to choose from.

Much like ball marks on the green - you can tell courses where the customers give a crap or not.

As for a normal level of divots - I think it can play into course strategy.  If everyone drives to about the same place, and you find you get into a divot more often than not - maybe consider laying up short as an option....Look at the pro tournaments.  it's so pristine that first day, but then by day 4, there are a lot of divots right there in the prime driving zones.....sucks for the players since it gets worse as the day progresses - hardly fair and even.

[Golfingdad]

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/01/one-of-golfs-ridiculous-rules-ruined-a-tour-players-perfect-drive

Quote

The rule on this is pretty clear, and it’s actually quite a contentious issue: bad luck, play the ball as it lies.

In some ways I admire the simplicity of it, which is the ultimate goal, after all. But this kind of blunt force logic is inconsistent with the rules environment that surrounds it, and besides, wanting simpler rules isn’t the same as wanting no rules.

So what should the solution here be? Simple: The ball is landing in an area, on the fairway, that has been damaged by a previous competitor. Keeping up a golf course is difficult and tough to keep perfect all the time. So for those areas that do devolve into temporary disrepair, those in charge will specifically designate areas “ground under repair.” Ground under repair is a part of the golf course that is, essentially, unfit to play, and because it’s under repair, golfers who hit their ball into these areas can move it out without penalty.

 

[Ernest Jones]

NO!

[David in FL]

Ah yes.  Yet another excellent example of poor analysis, with no understanding of the actual issue, that's so prevalent in the McPaper.

 

[Golfingdad]

4 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Ah yes.  Yet another excellent example of poor analysis, with no understanding of the actual issue, that's so prevalent in the McPaper.

 

Ha.  Don't think I've ever heard that one before. :)

[dkolo]

21 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/01/one-of-golfs-ridiculous-rules-ruined-a-tour-players-perfect-drive

 

BREAKING: Guy is playing Kapalua in January, hits a driver 400 yards and still complains

[Fourputt]

33 minutes ago, dkolo said:

BREAKING: Guy is playing Kapalua in January, hits a driver 400 yards and still complains

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa...