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Is breaking the rules really bad?


dnaygs
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It's just that whenever these discussions get going many here seem to assume that ones not following the rules are also trying to pull something over on the rules followers. As far as cheating goes I no longer keep a handicap, if I did I'd play by they rules. I tend to have a bit of faith in other Sandtrap members. I think they would most likely do the right thing if they were keeping a legit handicap for the purpose of playing in sanctioned events. Obviously some here don't share in my faith.

cubdog

Maybe some of those presumptions are based on years of folks coming here trying to get us to give them absolution for their sins.  This is a rules forum and people should expect that here the rules get defended and upheld.

I wonder what % of the golfing population compete in sanctioned events.

From reading on here I am getting the feeling that my usual group may be pretty different than the average group.

We are all pretty bad golfers. All three of us have either started playing in the last few years or started playing on a regular basis in the last 3. We never play in events other than the occasional work related scramble. We don't play for money other than once and a while a closest to the pin on #9 for a round at the turn.

Our rules stay the same but they include.

1. Breakfast ball on first tee.

2. If after going to our drive we find out it is lost we do not go back to the tee box. we drop and count 1 stroke.

3. 1' gimmies. (actually turns out to be 16"

4. We allow not counting practice shots. (So if I miss-hit a shot and we are waiting anyway I will sometimes drop a practice ball and re-try the shot. The practice ball gets picked up and the original bad shot gets played.)

We compete only against ourselves and act more as caddies for each other than competitors. Helping each other with advice on targets and lines and of course unsolicited terrible swing advice. The swing advice is so bad it has the potential of completely jacking up an already tenuous swing. :)

We may not be "normal" but we enjoy the heck out of our golf and I would like to think we are not being too much of a bother at the local courses we play. They seem to be willing to accept our money each weekend.

That is fine, but the resulting scores are meaningless.  So long as you do not try to discuss or compare scores with anyone outside your group that is fine.  But outside your group the scores are meaningless.

The score is important to me. And I like to have one score comparable to the next...

But, a 2" putt.  I pick it up just to speed up the pace.  Even if that doesn't really slow us down to tap it in, it just feels awfully picky to take putts of 2 inches or less.  So I guess I don't play by the rules.  I still don't think that affects my score as I'm pretty sure I could make a hundred 2 inch puts in a row.

On the other side of the argument, where do you draw the line... for me it's at about say 10" unless there's a bunch of break and/or steep downhill in which case I'd putt a 10 incher.

Maybe if I was a single digit handicapper I would never take a gimme.  But, at my handicap, I don't think anyone cares.

You are fooling yourself if you think this is a pace of play issue.  If you maintain an official handicap you have a obligation to play by the rules.  All of them.  And no matter how many digits are in your handicap.

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

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Overall there is nothing wrong with your approach. I would caution you that this type of play will make following the rules in "friendly competition" more difficult. Let's say you're on a golf trip or playing with a group of guys and there is a $5 random draw bet, or a friendly Nassau for beers. Do you inform everyone of your intention to play with 17 clubs? Do you just not hit the extra clubs, leave them in your trunk, or is it the level of competition what determines these choices. Slippery slope, but if that's what gets you on the course, and possibly getting others living the game. Do it!! Just be aware of the pitfalls.

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I never understand people who choose to break the rules or pick up gimmes or whatever. I'm cool with it, as long as you don't compare to me.

I have a 16 handicap and play by the rules because they're the rules. I wouldn't hit the post in a game of football (soccer to you guys) and claim a goal, so I won't do the same in golf.

Tbh, as much as I keep score, it rarely matters to me aside from betting or in competitions. Usually I forget whole rounds and remember the odd amazing shot or complete balls-up. Nothing beats the sound of the ball going in the cup, whether it be a par-5 albatross (hell yeah!) or the 10th shot of the hole.

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I never understand people who choose to break the rules or pick up gimmes or whatever. I'm cool with it, as long as you don't compare to me.

If I'm under a tree among roots or the potential for unseen roots, I'm moving my ball even if it is playable and take a stroke penalty.  Why?  I don't want to injure myself or damage my equipment.

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If I'm under a tree among roots or the potential for unseen roots, I'm moving my ball even if it is playable and take a stroke penalty.  Why?  I don't want to injure myself or damage my equipment.

That would be the definition of an unplayable lie. When the cost of making the shot out weight the benefits. You didn't want to get injured so the shot now becomes unplayable for you. Take the drop and penalty and move on.

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That would be the definition of an unplayable lie. When the cost of making the shot out weight the benefits. You didn't want to get injured so the shot now becomes unplayable for you. Take the drop and penalty and move on.

A guy in my foursome on Sunday found his ball in the junk (desert like, weeds here and there, mostly dirt) and there was a 6" diameter boulder about 8"-10" behind the ball.  He weighed his options and decided to take a chance and play it, but didn't really adjust his line or his swing - I think he'd have been OK had he chose to chip sideways back to the fairway OR had he put his weight waaaaay forward and tried to chop down steeply on it - and caught the back of the rock with the full force of his swing.  Didn't hurt himself somehow, but he did bend his PW pretty good.  Didn't hit the ball at all, not surprisingly, but did manage to crack the rock in half and move both pieces enough that they didn't interfere with his next shot.

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A guy in my foursome on Sunday found his ball in the junk (desert like, weeds here and there, mostly dirt) and there was a 6" diameter boulder about 8"-10" behind the ball.  He weighed his options and decided to take a chance and play it, but didn't really adjust his line or his swing - I think he'd have been OK had he chose to chip sideways back to the fairway OR had he put his weight waaaaay forward and tried to chop down steeply on it - and caught the back of the rock with the full force of his swing.  Didn't hurt himself somehow, but he did bend his PW pretty good.  Didn't hit the ball at all, not surprisingly, but did manage to crack the rock in half and move both pieces enough that they didn't interfere with his next shot.

Would that be considered improving your lie? :whistle:

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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A guy in my foursome on Sunday found his ball in the junk (desert like, weeds here and there, mostly dirt) and there was a 6" diameter boulder about 8"-10" behind the ball.  He weighed his options and decided to take a chance and play it, but didn't really adjust his line or his swing - I think he'd have been OK had he chose to chip sideways back to the fairway OR had he put his weight waaaaay forward and tried to chop down steeply on it - and caught the back of the rock with the full force of his swing.  Didn't hurt himself somehow, but he did bend his PW pretty good.  Didn't hit the ball at all, not surprisingly, but did manage to crack the rock in half and move both pieces enough that they didn't interfere with his next shot.

He's a single digit handicap? Agree, too, @No Mulligans : take the unplayable.

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He moved two loose impediments.

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A guy in my foursome on Sunday found his ball in the junk (desert like, weeds here and there, mostly dirt) and there was a 6" diameter boulder about 8"-10" behind the ball.  He weighed his options and decided to take a chance and play it, but didn't really adjust his line or his swing - I think he'd have been OK had he chose to chip sideways back to the fairway OR had he put his weight waaaaay forward and tried to chop down steeply on it - and caught the back of the rock with the full force of his swing.  Didn't hurt himself somehow, but he did bend his PW pretty good.  Didn't hit the ball at all, not surprisingly, but did manage to crack the rock in half and move both pieces enough that they didn't interfere with his next shot.

Was the 6" rock embedded? Was the junk in a hazard? If not, why the heck didn't he just move the loose impediment? :-\

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Was the 6" rock embedded? Was the junk in a hazard? If not, why the heck didn't he just move the loose impediment?

Crap, my bad, I forgot about that part. :doh:

Yes, it was in a hazard, and that is why he didn't move it.

He's a single digit handicap?

Probably not.  My flight is still 8-12 handicap (based off tour events only).  When you're new to the tour, if you don't already have a USGA handicap, then you pretty much get to choose your flight.  He might have been a little optimistic.

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If I'm under a tree among roots or the potential for unseen roots, I'm moving my ball even if it is playable and take a stroke penalty.  Why?  I don't want to injure myself or damage my equipment.

Smart move.  But I do not know what this has to do with not following rules since you seem to have followed them exactly so long as the moving of your ball satisfied one of the unplayable lie options.  The problem is all the guys who do the same thing but they do not care if their moving of the ball satisfies one of the allowable options and they do not add the stroke penalty.

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

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Crap, my bad, I forgot about that part. :doh:  Yes, it was in a hazard, and that is why he didn't move it.

Wait, why is it your bad? Did you tell him to play it as it lies? :-D Okay, it was in a hazard. Too bad.

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Wait, why is it your bad? Did you tell him to play it as it lies?

Okay, it was in a hazard. Too bad.

My bad because I left that part out of the story in my first post.  No other reason.

Another part of the story that I left out is that almost simultaneously, a third member of our group was up in the same hazard trying to chop out and he also whiffed his first attempt.  The entire hole (third hole) was one giant group debacle. (I double bogeyed)

Luckily, I recovered after it and shot 82.  They didn't. Rock breaker shot 98 and plain old whiffer shot 95.

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My bad because I left that part out of the story in my first post.  No other reason. Another part of the story that I left out is that almost simultaneously, a third member of our group was up in the same hazard trying to chop out and he also whiffed his first attempt.  The entire hole (third hole) was one giant group debacle. (I double bogeyed) Luckily, I recovered after it and shot 82.  They didn't. Rock breaker shot 98 and plain old whiffer shot 95.

. . .But at least you had a fun day right? ;-) Btw, I like the nicknames you gave your partners. :-D

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My bad because I left that part out of the story in my first post.  No other reason.

Another part of the story that I left out is that almost simultaneously, a third member of our group was up in the same hazard trying to chop out and he also whiffed his first attempt.  The entire hole (third hole) was one giant group debacle. (I double bogeyed)

Luckily, I recovered after it and shot 82.  They didn't. Rock breaker shot 98 and plain old whiffer shot 95.

I should point out that I'm not averse to stupidity either.  In a tournament a couple of years ago I whiffed one trying to hack out from up against a tree stump.  If anybody watched Adam Scott on the 8th hole yesterday, I basically attempted the exact shot that he (wisely) chose not to attempt in the hazard up by the green.

. . .But at least you had a fun day right?

Of course I did.  Tournaments are interesting.  I get really excited signing up for them and preparing for them, and then the day rolls around and I'm driving to the tournament and the butterflies are going nuts in my stomach and I ask myself "Why am I doing this??  If I wanted to play golf today, why didn't I get together for a stress-free round with my friends?"  Then I kick myself for signing up, then wish I hadn't, then I get to the course and start warming up and start playing, settle down a bit, and then start really having fun.  If I could sum up the whole experience in one word, I think it's 'exhilerating.'

When it's over, the satisfaction of playing "for real" is really high, especially if I played well. :beer:

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I should point out that I'm not averse to stupidity either.  In a tournament a couple of years ago I whiffed one trying to hack out from up against a tree stump.  If anybody watched Adam Scott on the 8th hole yesterday, I basically attempted the exact shot that he (wisely) chose not to attempt in the hazard up by the green.

Of course I did.  Tournaments are interesting.  I get really excited signing up for them and preparing for them, and then the day rolls around and I'm driving to the tournament and the butterflies are going nuts in my stomach and I ask myself "Why am I doing this??  If I wanted to play golf today, why didn't I get together for a stress-free round with my friends?"  Then I kick myself for signing up, then wish I hadn't, then I get to the course and start warming up and start playing, settle down a bit, and then start really having fun.  If I could sum up the whole experience in one word, I think it's 'exhilerating.'

When it's over, the satisfaction of playing "for real" is really high, especially if I played well.

We're all prone to do stupid things because the pro's make it look so easy.

You're right about tournaments.  I entered some club tournaments this year and while it's nothing compared to what you're doing, the added pressure changed my entire approach to the round.  It's crazy how much more the mental game factors in when the only variable you change is "casual round" to "tournament round".

Joe Paradiso

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