Mickelson vs Watson: Was Phil Right to Be Critical of Watson at the Press Conference?

[MS256]

Bull. Coaches are fired all the time rather than trading the all-star player. Hockey, baseball, football, basketball. Happens all the time. Easier to fire the coach than to fire the players (and find players just as good).

Bull to you too. Players are let go all the time because they don't buy in. Most of the really uncooperative ones are cut before the ever even make a team.

Sure an occasional superstar has status with ownership above a coach but that percentage is next to nothing compared to players that would be run out of town in a minute for undermining the coach.

[Jeremie Boop]

Not to me. He should have told him what he thought in private instead of a backhanded public ambush where Watson really didn't have the option of much retaliation or rebuttal (or punching him in the nose).

This wasn't some off the wall ambush from what I understand. Phil was asked a question and he answered it. You'd rather he wasn't honest in his answer and just lied to sound like everyone one else? That's not to say that everyone should agree with what he said or how he felt, but he had the right to say what he said when he said it and how he said it. Nothing wrong with how it was done.

[Dave2512]

Yes and his response wasn't all that scathing either.

[Hammer 4]

In the Phil interview, he said that with the Pod system, the players were "Invested" in the tournament. My question is, what does it take to be invested when you are playing for your country..? I would think your pride would be enough to do the best you can, and not have to rely on some system as it were. Agreed, Tom made mistakes, but the bottom line is, the Eruo team played better.  Or am I missing something..?

[Dave2512]

In the Phil interview, he said that with the Pod system, the players were "Invested" in the tournament. My question is, what does it take to be invested when you are playing for your country..? I would think your pride would be enough to do the best you can, and not have to rely on some system as it were. Agreed, Tom made mistakes, but the bottom line is, the Eruo team played better.  Or am I missing something..?

My guess is this is the passive aggressive part. What he really meant was he wasn't invested in the captain. He wasn't alone there. Even the media was mutinous after he sat JS/PR. Probably has something to do with riding the pine on Sat after he and Bradley played like ass on Fri afternoon.

[iacas]

But Phil needs to look in the mirror and point the finger at himself.

He did go 2-1 this year. He had a winning record on a losing team. If the entire U.S. team goes 2-1 (or the equivalent 3-1-1) then the U.S. wins handily, of course.

Bull to you too. Players are let go all the time because they don't buy in. Most of the really uncooperative ones are cut before the ever even make a team.

Nah, not the superstars. Sorry. You can't compare a second-rate football player to a guy who is literally already in the Hall of Fame.

It's easier to fire the coach than to replace the star player.

[MS256]

Nah, not the superstars. Sorry. You can't compare a second-rate football player to a guy who is literally already in the Hall of Fame.

It's easier to fire the coach than to replace the star player.

Nah. Golfers can become superstars if they are not team players and they really don't have to cooperate with anybody.

Football superstars rarely question a coach's decisions publicly because they know what it does to the locker room. They learned that fairly early on or they wouldn't have made their college teams. I'm sure Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are totally disgusted with personnel decisions plenty of times, and probably even voice their opinions on it, but not in the locker room and not in public.

[Patch]

Some things should be left in the locker room. This is probably one of those things. Then again, this is Philly Mick being himself. He's never been bashful when in front of the media. Watson did not swing one club during this rout, so most of this poor showing belongs on the shoulders of the players. As much as 6 months ago, this out come was being predicted. The Euro team had the better "team" of players.  Even the sports book had them the favorite back then. This loss, regardless of who is to blame was predicted, and is no surprise.

Voicing this publicly might have been a good idea if they were getting ready to play again in the very near future. With the next match 2 years away, with presumable different players, and a different coach, it has little meaning for the next group.

Tommy Watson is good man, and knows golf. This loss, and Mickleson's words won't bother him that much. If anything he will take the heat, so as not let this loss fall on the players' shoulders, even though that's where most of it belongs.

Maybe some day the American team will be in a better frame of mind to go out and play better. Myself I would like to see (just once) the US team made up of the top college players just for the heck of it.

Most likely by next week they will be friends again, and sharing some beverages. Probably doing that now. It's the media that will keep stoking the fire.

[Silent]

What Phil did is unexcusable. If you have a problem with your 'boss' (or anybody else), you take it up with him. If that doesn't help you go to the person above that (PGA or whatever). Imagine it would be the other way around, and the captain publically trows one of a underperfomrning player under the bus. Would that also be okay? I guess not... Very bad example Phil sets here, this is not the way.

[Dave2512]

He did go 2-1 this year. He had a winning record on a losing team. If the entire U.S. team goes 2-1 (or the equivalent 3-1-1) then the U.S. wins handily, of course.

Yep but IMO without positive impact to the health and attitude of the US team. Most felt RM/SG lost the first match and PM/KB stole it. A point is a point but it didn't indicate they had what it took to replicate their Medinah success. If anything by the end of Fri their afternoon loss hurt more than the morning point because of the way it happened. And I'm not sure beating the weakest on the Euro squad is a significant contribution. That's a gimme.

[newtogolf]

Yep but IMO without positive impact to the health and attitude of the US team. Most felt RM/SG lost the first match and PM/KB stole it. A point is a point but it didn't indicate they had what it took to replicate their Medinah success. If anything by the end of Fri their afternoon loss hurt more than the morning point because of the way it happened. And I'm not sure beating the weakest on the Euro squad is a significant contribution. That's a gimme.

You could say that about any match that was won.  No one broke the course record so in any of the matches one could say the winner "won" the match or the loser "lost" it.  Phil and Keegan played well enough to win and did win.

[mvmac]

Yep but IMO without positive impact to the health and attitude of the US team. Most felt RM/SG lost the first match and PM/KB stole it. A point is a point but it didn't indicate they had what it took to replicate their Medinah success.

Well that's not Phil's fault, all the guy can do is go out and try to win matches. To the U.S. players, I bet they didn't feel like Phil/Keegan "stole it".

[Spitfisher]

Phil is an extrovert, outgoing, speaks his mind, loves to answer questions and lets face it has developed into a role of senior Ryder cup player.....Phil was benched Saturday and had a lot of time to think about it.

I bet he has already forgotten about it, as has Watson. Its only the media now that keeps it alive.

[Big C]

No. Phil was childish and immature. His comments reek of someone whose ego was bruised by being asked to sit out all day Saturday, so he's going to get back at his captain with a few direct shots at the press conference.

Amazingly, Patrick Reed showed twice the maturity and composure of "Elder statesman" Phil. Even though Reed had just as much reason to be steamed about sitting out the Friday afternoon sessions, he composed himself and answered questions like a professional - which is to say, he took the high road and did not throw Watson under the bus.

I would guess that Phil is regretting his statements right now and will be making an apology to Watson (whether public or private remains to be seen) in very short order.

[rehmwa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big C

No. Phil was childish and immature. His comments reek of someone whose ego was bruised by being asked to sit out all day Saturday, so he's going to get back at his captain with a few direct shots at the press conference.

Amazingly, Patrick Reed showed twice the maturity and composure of "Elder statesman" Phil. Even though Reed had just as much reason to be steamed about sitting out the Friday afternoon sessions, he composed himself and answered questions like a professional - which is to say, he took the high road and did not throw Watson under the bus.

I would guess that Phil is regretting his statements right now and will be making an apology to Watson (whether public or private remains to be seen) in very short order.

I haven't seen the round of interviews yet.  Just a couple of post round interviews.  Was out this weekend and have to watch the recordings after the fact....sigh

On topic - I don't know if Phil had already aired his comments with Tom Watson and the other teammates already.  (I'd bet he did and then some)  But that's how you do it - discuss it privately, and only if it doesn't get results/acknowledgment then openly.  Not openly first.  So I can't comment if he should have done it at all.  Personally, I'm happier with the 'win as a team, lose as a team' even if that's rote, it's courteous.

I'm also more of a fan with a winning team member talking about the team winning, and when it's a losing team, each member talks about how they personally could have done better.  I don't know what kind of 'mea culpa' Tom Watson put out there prior to Phil's comments either - but each member should be afforded a chance to own up before anyone else even thinks of doing it for them.

But I do think that doing it right now and as an answer to a direct question - where everybody involved is present so they can comment/reply/rebutt - is the least objectionable way to do what he did.  Better than after the fact or behind anyone's back.

It'll be more interesting to see how the conversation progresses going forward.

Your comment on Reed - I saw Reed's interview after his match and was impressed - he talked about teamwork, praised his teammates, gave a VERY respectful nod to his opponent and just plain acted like a teammate and not just about PR - apparently he is able to learn from his past gaffs.  of course winning makes him more legit too.  But he did a good job with the press finally.  Good to see.

Quote Spitfisher

Phil is an extrovert, outgoing, speaks his mind, loves to answer questions and lets face it has developed into a role of senior Ryder cup player.....Phil was benched Saturday and had a lot of time to think about it.

I bet he has already forgotten about it, as has Watson. Its only the media now that keeps it alive.

This I really believe more than the rest.

[mvmac]

Azinger in an interview today

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/azinger-us-cant-have-lone-wolf-captains/

Quote:

“It is time for the PGA of America to recognize the great disconnect and formulate the same business model for selecting a captain as it does for selecting its president and officers,” Azinger said, according to the report.

“The PGA of America has officers that move up the ranks, getting sage advice along the way. And then many of them stick around and keep offering advice. I think the PGA of America should recognize their business model is exactly the same as what Europe uses in selecting a captain.”

The report points out that only two of the past 10 U.S. captains previously were assistant captains, including Azinger, who played on four teams before assuming the lead role in ’08. “We have lone-wolf captains,” he said.

Meanwhile, the European players were effusive in their praise of captain Paul McGinley , who followed the script of Ryder Cups past – the template – on his way to leading Europe to its eighth win in 10 tries.

“Europe consistently repeats a philosophy of leadership that every captain has learned from the captains in the past,” Azinger said, according to the report. It is an approach that is comfortable and familiar. The U.S. approach is less comfortable and completely unfamiliar to every repeat player. The players have to adjust to a complete unique system to the previous two years.”

[Chris223]

No. Phil was childish and immature. His comments reek of someone whose ego was bruised by being asked to sit out all day Saturday, so he's going to get back at his captain with a few direct shots at the press conference.

Amazingly, Patrick Reed showed twice the maturity and composure of "Elder statesman" Phil. Even though Reed had just as much reason to be steamed about sitting out the Friday afternoon sessions, he composed himself and answered questions like a professional - which is to say, he took the high road and did not throw Watson under the bus.

I would guess that Phil is regretting his statements right now and will be making an apology to Watson (whether public or private remains to be seen) in very short order.

Highly doubt that.

1.  Phil doesn't strike me as someone who ever regrets speaking his mind - and he's damn well earned the right to do that with the career he has had.  Love him or hate him, he's one of the greatest players of our generation.

2.  He never mentioned Watson specifically.  But his frustration of losing is quite obvious.  Jim Furyk also said something to the tune of "If we knew a winning formula we'd have fixed this s**t a long time ago".  All the Americans are quite sick of getting absolutely dominated.  2 years ago, I guarantee if we were playing in Europe we would have gotten SPANKED, and not just on the last day.

3.  Good for Patrick Reed, he had months of god awful play after his "Top 5 Reed" earlier this year to humble him.  I am chalking his humbleness up to that... plus he's a RC Rookie.  He knew his place.  But I have always been a fan of him, even after his comments earlier this year.

Phil doesn't have that many more Ryder Cups as a player, with the slight chance this was his last one, he'll be what, 46 when the next one rolls around?  He's sick of losing.  Someone needed to speak up, I frankly, am sick of hearing as a fan "well we just didn't make the putts we needed too" or "well you know we had a couple good shots today but just didn't pull it off".  I'm sick of it.

[Mr. Desmond]

Phil was asked a question...

If he answered "no comment" , the room would have gotten tense anyway.

Phil's ERROR ERROR ERROR was in continuing his answer ... to paraphrase  "and that did not happen this week."

If he would have stopped, there is no throwing Watson under the bus.

Phil did not know when to stop ... and that's not unusual.