"Correct" pace of play

[flopster]

What exactly does correct pace of play mean? Does it mean play at a pace of 4 1/2 hours or less? Or is it what I believe to maintain your position behind the group ahead? I marshal part time and just recently had to tell a group of 4 that they are falling behind and that they either can speed up play or allow the group behind them that just told me they had been waiting some during the round to play through. One of the players in the group claimed that since they were playing at a 4 1/2 hour pace and even though there was 2 open holes in front that they didn't have to speed up or let the group behind through. I was about to tell him how wrong he was but the other marshal on shift quipped in that he's right and I should leave them alone, I decided to let it go since my shift was just ending but unless I have been told wrong info for quite some time I just don't agree with that way of thinking whatsoever, I feel as though the course is letting people feel as if they have a right to be out there for at least 4 1/2 hours and if it runs over too bad and too bad for those who want to play in less time, if the course allows that much time it's inevitable the pace will reach 5+ hours and it does there sometimes even 6. I plan on sending an e mail to the head marshal if I'm correct but if not then fine also but more important than anything else I think clarification needs to happen.

[iacas]

What's your course's pace of play policy?

4:30 is pretty long.

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Given a blank sheet of paper, I'd define pace of play as 3:45. If a group has an open hole, AND is slower than the pace of play, you get to warn them/make them skip a hole/make them let players through/etc.

If they're on the tails of the group in front, you can't say anything, even if they're at 5:00 pace (if that's true then some group in front is responsible for the slow pace of play).

That's about it. KISS.

Just make sure everyone knows about it before they tee off.

[flopster]

What's your course's pace of play policy?

4:30 is pretty long.

Given a blank sheet of paper, I'd define pace of play as 3:45. If a group has an open hole, AND is slower than the pace of play, you get to warn them/make them skip a hole/make them let players through/etc.

If they're on the tails of the group in front, you can't say anything, even if they're at 5:00 pace (if that's true then some group in front is responsible for the slow pace of play).

That's about it. KISS.

Just make sure everyone knows about it before they tee off.

4 1/2 hours and I agree that's very long, here is the reason though, it's a hard course so people are constantly searching for lost balls, the fast greens cause havoc and 4 putts are pretty common sometimes, I have played in a group of 4 in 3:45 minutes or even a little less so I know it can happen, granted we are all pretty good players but there was still no 3 practice swings and gallery golf going on either. So should the pace of play policy be a set time or should it be maintaining your place, I think your more of a maintain your place type so I agree with you.

[mvmac]

Yeah 4:30 is pretty long, like Erik said 3:45 is a good pace to strive for. The "default" is to keep up with the group in front of you.

[iacas]

So should the pace of play policy be a set time or should it be maintaining your place, I think your more of a maintain your place type so I agree with you.

I think it should be both.

If you're the second group out and the guys in front of you play fast, you'd be penalized even if you're playing at a good pace.

Plus I was suggesting 3:45 saying that's what you TELL people, but if your course wants to enforce it at 4:00, that's fine. That way you're always giving players a little benefit of the doubt.

[vangator]

I'd check the course's policy because I can't help but think it has something in there about keeping up with the group ahead.

[Patch]

I think maintaining your place with regards to the group in front of you is the best way to go. You can only play so fast, and safely depending on what the group(s) in front of you a doing.

Then again, if you are not holding anyone up, and there is no one in front of you then play as fast, or slow as you want.

Now if the course starter tells me I have to be done in 4 hours, or less,  then I will do that. I've played rounds in < 3 hours this past summer. However, if that time limit is a course rule, then the course management better make sure that every one on the course finishes in 4 hours or less. They better have good course marshals out there enforcing that rule.

I marshaled for a while at a county owned muni course. I was given a list of rules to enforce on the course which of course included pace of play time limits. My pay was free food, golf, and a cart. I tried to enforce the rules, but with some golfers there is not much you can do. Plus, there was not much back up from the course manager when someone complained about me "intruding" on their round of golf. The list of rules it turned out were very flexible.

I would also suspect that if a course installed a time limit, that some slower golfers might decide to take their pocket book else where with less stringent regulations.

[cubdog]

If 4:30 was anywhere close to being a good time I'd quit playing. 3:45 sounds reasonable. I can't understand why anyone would want to spend more time on a golf course unless they are playing two rounds.

cubdog

[MS256]

A "normal" round for me in a foursome (where I don't either feel rushed or slowed down) is 3 1/2 hours. I can live with 30 minutes faster or slower but don't care to go more than that either way. I'm not much on "keeping pace with the group in front" because I know some speed burners that act like their goal is to get off of the golf course as soon as possible (and break every rule in the book to achieve it). I've also seen times where a group ahead of us plays really slow for one reason or another and bogs us, and everybody behind us, down behind them. Then they suddenly pick up the pace making it look like we were the ones causing the problem. On the other hand if there is a group behind me I'm going to do everything I can do within reason to play faster than they do. If they are speed burners I'll let them through at the first opportunity.

[flopster]

I think maintaining your place with regards to the group in front of you is the best way to go. You can only play so fast, and safely depending on what the group(s) in front of you a doing.

Then again, if you are not holding anyone up, and there is no one in front of you then play as fast, or slow as you want.

Now if the course starter tells me I have to be done in 4 hours, or less,  then I will do that. I've played rounds in < 3 hours this past summer. However, if that time limit is a course rule, then the course management better make sure that every one on the course finishes in 4 hours or less. They better have good course marshals out there enforcing that rule.

I marshaled for a while at a county owned muni course. I was given a list of rules to enforce on the course which of course included pace of play time limits. My pay was free food, golf, and a cart. I tried to enforce the rules, but with some golfers there is not much you can do. Plus, there was not much back up from the course manager when someone complained about me "intruding" on their round of golf. The list of rules it turned out were very flexible.

I would also suspect that if a course installed a time limit, that some slower golfers might decide to take their pocket book else where with less stringent regulations.

I agree, when no one else will be impacted I see no problem taking as much time as you please, I feel much the same way as far as what I do being backed up short of dealing with a verbally abusive/ threatening customer, I just think it would be so much better for the course if they were a little more proactive and clear with the public and us for that matter when this comes up, I think 4;30 could be the limit but 4;00 the target that we tell the public to adhere to,if you tell them 4:30 is okay then they will try and stretch it to 5 hours not intentionally but that ultimately is what happens.

[Shorty]

If 4:30 was anywhere close to being a good time I'd quit playing. 3:45 sounds reasonable. I can't understand why anyone would want to spend more time on a golf course unless they are playing two rounds.

cubdog

Not everyone plays in a two in a cart with no-one in front of them you know.

[RayG]

Doesn't ANYONE play on a muni on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon? 3:45? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... Even 4:30 for a public muni on a weekend around here is a stretch. Even if you ARE in one of the first groups you will get bogged behind "That group..." and that's it for the rest of the day. These places need REVENUE, and getting as many people out as possible (within certain reason) is what they will do. There is very little recourse for a customer to say "Hey- I want to play in 3:45, get these people to pick it up or I'll leave", They will tell him "Goodbye" and take the money from the next guy who wants to play. Those in the clubs with limited memberships have every right to set their rules and admonish those slow pokes. You can police among yourselves and take care of it. As I've mentioned in a few other threads- it isn't about SPEED of play, It's about the pace. If it takes 4:00 or 5:00, as long as everyone is moving along without a lot of standing around. IT SEEMS faster if you're moving along at whatever PACE is being set. 4 hours can seem like forever if you're waiting for "The Pros from Dover" on every hole. They MIGHT be able to hit more fairways than you, but once thy get close or on the green, they're staring everything down from all directions, pacing off every putt or chip from 30 yards and in, and then chunking it, and starting all over again. All for a quarter... Rabbits are even worse to play with- "Hey, I can play in 2 hours and 12 minutes if I stick right up the guys in front and roll my drives up to them, and hit my approaches just as they get to the fringe", Personally, why not just have a section in the forum dedicated to pace of play threads... Oh, wait- almost EVERY thread winds up being about slow play :-D

[rdsandy]

I would say if you are maintaining the round time posted on the card there should be no issues with your group.

My courses allow 4:15 per round, never had a round that was more than 10 minutes faster or slower than that pace.

The problem with the rule of staying behind the group ahead is if the first group is super fast most won't keep up and then groups are leapfrogging over one another never to catch up but ultimately slowing down each group as they wait for others to pass them.

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayG

Doesn't ANYONE play on a muni on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon? 3:45? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... Even 4:30 for a public muni on a weekend around here is a stretch. Even if you ARE in one of the first groups you will get bogged behind "That group..." and that's it for the rest of the day. These places need REVENUE, and getting as many people out as possible (within certain reason) is what they will do. There is very little recourse for a customer to say "Hey- I want to play in 3:45, get these people to pick it up or I'll leave", They will tell him "Goodbye" and take the money from the next guy who wants to play.

Those in the clubs with limited memberships have every right to set their rules and admonish those slow pokes. You can police among yourselves and take care of it.

As I've mentioned in a few other threads- it isn't about SPEED of play, It's about the pace. If it takes 4:00 or 5:00, as long as everyone is moving along without a lot of standing around. IT SEEMS faster if you're moving along at whatever PACE is being set. 4 hours can seem like forever if you're waiting for "The Pros from Dover" on every hole. They MIGHT be able to hit more fairways than you, but once thy get close or on the green, they're staring everything down from all directions, pacing off every putt or chip from 30 yards and in, and then chunking it, and starting all over again. All for a quarter...

Rabbits are even worse to play with- "Hey, I can play in 2 hours and 12 minutes if I stick right up the guys in front and roll my drives up to them, and hit my approaches just as they get to the fringe",

Personally, why not just have a section in the forum dedicated to pace of play threads... Oh, wait- almost EVERY thread winds up being about slow play

How can it take 5 hours to play a round of golf without a lot of standing around?  Unless you (generic you, not you personally) are the one who is causing everyone's round to take 5 hours?

I do not care how fast someone plays - if there is room ahead and a faster group behind they should let that faster group through.  The course's posted pace of play is all well and good but only an a-hat would sit there with 2, or even 1, clear holes ahead and refuse to let  faster group through.

I mean, my goodness, it is right in the etiquette section of the rule book!

Quote:

It is a group’s responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through.

[Hardballs]

4 hours is a reasonable pace, 4.5hours is max! I would say, if it was my course, that your job would be to ensure that all players are aware of this before tee off, and let them know it's acceptable behaviour to look for lost balls, but not if it's holding up the players behind for more than 2 minutes! At that point you either play through or forfeit the ball/hole. And if anyone takes more than 2hrs 20mins for the first 9 holes they should be asked to leave and receive 50% of there fee back! If everyone is aware if this before tee off, there shouldn't be any problems, and there should be a starter on the first tee to instruct everyone! Might sound a bit hitlerish, but some people need to be told for the enjoyment of others!

[iacas]

Doesn't ANYONE play on a muni on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon? 3:45? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... Even 4:30 for a public muni on a weekend around here is a stretch.

What happens and what SHOULD happen are two very different things.

There's no reason why 3:45 should not be attainable. I've played some darn difficult golf courses in far less time. Mike and I dawdled, hit extra balls, re-played two holes, etc. on a very challenging golf course… and were in the car driving away by the time we'd noticed it had been three hours since we teed off. We weren't rushing at all.

[Slice of Life]

Should never take a foursome more than 4 hours to golf. If it takes longer, you need to hit the range first and learn some etiquette.

Really shouldn't take longer than 3.5 hours for a foursome...

People are slow. Walking around the green plum bobbing for 10 minutes for a 4 footer (which they eventually miss). It's a joke...

[whatwoodtigerdo]

I don't believe a single person who says a 4.5 hour foursome round is slow plays golf. Y'all need to get off the website and golf every now and then. 4.5 is an acceptable weekend foursome round where you might wait every now and the. If your group has a low scoring hole. 4 is rushed unless it is a bunch of scratch golfers who go fairway/green a high percentage of the time and you really know the course. 5 is when the round starts to be unbearable. It is dependent on the course though. Short and wide open courses should play slightly faster obviously. And to the OP the course isn't stating that "they have the right it be out there for at least 4.5 hours" as you stated. The course is saying as long as they finish in 4.5 hours they deem it acceptable regardless of what other groups in front of them are doing. My group is always pushing the group in front of us and one is a very short hitter but to think four 18 handicaps should keep up with four low single digit handicaps is absurd and maybe y'all need to join a private course.