Is Distance Really That Important for Amateurs?

[RFKFREAK]

I wonder when the last time was that @FireDragon76 read this thread.

My guess is that he wouldn't have guessed his thread would have exploded like it has.

[boogielicious]

I wonder when the last time was that @FireDragon76 read this thread.

My guess is that he wouldn't have guessed his thread would have exploded like it has.

Post #2 is all he needed.

[Abu3baid]

Post #2 is all he needed.

I think after Post# 3 things were pretty clear to him though

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Post #2 is all he needed.

I think after Post# 3 things were pretty clear to him though

Well played Eyad.  Well played!

[tqcishark]

I honestly think that first statement is not true.Ive seen plenty of long hitters to me and i would never say they are more accurate.Just because you can hit it a long way doesnt mean your accurate.

not that its a big deal but you're sort of arguing a point that is notably more extreme than the one I made.  I said "Longer hitters tend to be more accurate"  Its not an absolute.  I too play with bogey+ golfers who can pound the ball.  But they also top, slice and shank enough tee strokes that their average drive is not long at all.  Just because you CAN hit a ball 300 doesn't mean you're a long hitter, and it certainly doesn't mean you're accurate.  To be a long hitter, you need to have a long average.  I think the data shows a long driving average strongly correlates to accuracy.

I actually believe high handicappers who routinely try to rip the cover off are some of the least accurate golfers.  The unwavering pursuit of 300 yd drives probably keeps more guys from improving than beer.  Lastly and this is sort of off topic, but I think claims of 300 yard drives might outnumber 300 yard drives by a factor of ten to one.

[GHIN0011458]

This thread is still kickin!

The bottom line, if you go through the thread is that lower handicappers are the ones who are arguing the distance vs accuracy mainly. Why? I am guessing because they are very close to their personal max distance meaning accuracy is going to come into play more and more as their handicaps go down. There IS a point at a very super high level of golf where accuracy becomes more important than distance. The lower handicappers are closer to that point than a higher handicapper. Which is why I am thinking you have better players coming on here and arguing that distance isn't that important. We already have the distance we need too so in our minds, we want more accuracy. Course Management is still #1 for me though in tournament play.

[Dave2512]

Nah we just understand accuracy is the by-product of distance.

[sacm3bill]

For those having a hard time understanding the concept, picture this:

You and I will play a round together (with strokes for handicap purposes to make it fair, of course) with a slight twist. Every time that I hit a tee shot on a par four or a par five, you will pick my ball up and carry it 20 yards further upon the line that it was traveling in the air (so essentially 20 yards longer with the same number of degrees offline). Would you bet money in such a scenario, where I am given 20 free yards (with the same accuracy) on every tee shot? Keep in mind that all I need to do to avoid allowing you to drop my ball into a hazard on a tight hole is hit a shorter club (that still gets those same 20 free yards) that I can play more accurately.

Alternately, we can play this round in a different manner. Instead of adding 20 yards to every one of my tee shots, we will do something different. This time, every time you hit a tee shot on a par four or five, I will take your ball and move it back towards the tee box by 20 yards maintaining the line the ball traveled on. You will be "more accurate" since your tee shot won't have traveled as far offline, but every approach shot you take will be from 20 yards further back. Would you like to wager any money on this match either?

I get your main point and agree with it, but just wanted to point out there's a discrepancy in the bolded statements. You're saying an extra 20 yards on the same line is the same accuracy, but then also saying that 20 fewer yards on the same line is more accurate.

Other than that small nitpick, great post.

[DrvFrShow]

I think my distance could get about 10 yds better and that's about it. I think that distance has to come with having some of the fundamentals like a centered pivot and no lateral movement of the head in place.

Course management will result in the biggest improvement in my score. My New Year's Resolution is to take my "medicine" on a hole. If my tee shot lands behind a tree, don't try to hit a cut shot, a draw shot, or a low "stinger" under the branches. Hit a punch shot out onto the fairway. Get it out of trouble. That will save me 3 strokes on the hole and several more black marks on my soul. If I land in a fairway bunker, 90% of the time I can get out of it, but if there is a tree between me and the green just hit the ball back onto the fairway, and not try to hit the ball around the tree. Stop trying to channel Michelle Wie. Those kind of mistakes force me to play catch up on the hole which only leads to swinging out of my socks with my hybrid on the next shot, and I invariably top the ball or pull the shot.

Just take my medicine and get back in the game. On a my par 5s chances are that I could be U&D; if I play smart - or U&D; for bogey at worst rather than U&D; for double bogey.

[Pretzel]

I get your main point and agree with it, but just wanted to point out there's a discrepancy in the bolded statements. You're saying an extra 20 yards on the same line is the same accuracy, but then also saying that 20 fewer yards on the same line is more accurate.

I put "more accurate" in quotes because you will have the same degree of accuracy as before, the same as when you go 20 yards longer, but your ball doesn't travel as far offline (because it doesn't go as far total). When you move it the 20 yards longer, you will hit it further offline with the same degree of accuracy but still technically be just as accurate since the degree of accuracy is the same.

It depends on how you define your accuracy. I made the mistake of defining accuracy as the number of degrees offline in the first example and the number of yards offline in the second example. In both examples your degrees offline will remain the same, but in the first your yards offline will increase slightly and in the second your yards offline with decrease slightly.

Sorry for any confusion it may have caused. (I'll edit this post after I mock up some MS Paint drawings to demonstrate what I mean by degrees of accuracy)

EDIT:

In this example, since the shot on the left traveled 20 yards further, the shot on the left will travel a bit further offline. The same degree of accuracy is kept, however, since the angle that the ball is off of center remains the same. In the second example I mistakenly based the stated accuracy around the Y measurement, instead of the angle measurement.

As a nice benefit of the angle being small, you will affect your Z distance much more than your Y distance as you increase the length of the hypotenuse. This is due to cosine values approaching 1 as your degrees approach 0, and your sine values approaching 0. So adding 20 yards of distance with the same degree of accuracy will make you become ~15-20 yards closer to the hole, while only ~0-5 yards further offline (depending on the actual measured angle, of course).

[Aflighter]

Huh?

So if a high handicapper had 140 yards to the hole, you think they would be better off if they walked it back 20 yards?

No,what im saying is with high handicappers i dont see much difference in their ability to hit a 6 iron compared to 8 iron.Im not saying they would hit the longer irons below 6 iron as good as the shorter irons.In the end it just depends on their experience and ability.Maybe im thinking of high handicappers as close to being beginners.

[iacas]

No,what im saying is with high handicappers i dont see much difference in their ability to hit a 6 iron compared to 8 iron.Im not saying they would hit the longer irons below 6 iron as good as the shorter irons.In the end it just depends on their experience and ability.Maybe im thinking of high handicappers as close to being beginners.

Just because you can't "see" it doesn't mean it's not there. They hit it closer with an 8I than a 6I. EVERY kind of golfer does.

[Jakester23]

No,what im saying is with high handicappers i dont see much difference in their ability to hit a 6 iron compared to 8 iron.Im not saying they would hit the longer irons below 6 iron as good as the shorter irons.In the end it just depends on their experience and ability.Maybe im thinking of high handicappers as close to being beginners.

There is a big difference between an 8 and a 6 not only for beginners but for almost everyone. Loft is your friend.  How many beginners are good at hitting a driver but suck at hitting a pw? Ive never seen it.  All of the people I play with (which varys from a low single digit caper to a guy I work with who shoots 120+) are better with more loft.  Sorry Erik beat me to it.

[colin007]

An 8 is closer to a wedge, a 6 is almost a long iron.

[Pretzel]

Ignoring the loft altogether, the fact that they're closer means they have more margin for error (in terms of degrees of accuracy) to still hit the green or get a nGIR.

[jajj]

I'm with you. As a recreational golfer whose goal is to have fun (and not embarrass myself) distance is of almost no interest to me.

For most par fives, I can hit a forgiving 3 wood (K15) off the tee, and then two very forgiving 5-hybrids. I still might have a little pitch on to the green, but I'm in the fairway the whole way, and no risk of disaster.

[Pretzel]

I'm with you. As a recreational golfer whose goal is to have fun (and not embarrass myself) distance is of almost no interest to me.

That's perfectly fine, but distance is important for shooting lower scores. That's what we're saying, is that hitting the ball further (and having subsequently shorter second shots on par 4's/5's) is important to shoot better scores. You can have plenty of fun even if you don't hit the ball very far.

[natureboy]

Here's a good quote for thread. Sorry if it's a repeat.

BROADIE: If you hit it longer, and you don’t hit too many more wild shots, you can gain a lot versus laying back and hitting more fairways, but there are a lot of variables you have to take into account. Hitting it into the water, or out of bounds, if you do that a couple more times in 100 shots than somebody else, that would negate the advantage of the few extra yards of driving distance.

http://www.pgatour.com/news/2014/03/03/foley--broadie-present-at-mit-stats-conference.html