what happened to all the great short par-threes?

[iacas]

This looks like the "Volcano Hole" at Bedford Springs, PA.  I remember it being MUCH longer, though, around 200 yards.  This hole was apparently done as part of a Donald Ross redesign of a Tillinghast redesign.

I've played that hole. Once before it was re-done. Then again after.

It does not qualify as a "short par three." The tenth and fourteenth holes there do, though.

[Wally Fairway]

If you like short par 3's and you get the chance - you should play Forest Dunes, it is in the middle of Michigan right in the middle of nowhere.

It is a standard set of par 3's that play 178/143, 154/163, 142/163, 179/198; but one of the hidden gems on the course is 19th hole a shorty par 3 (97 - 117 yards) with a sandtrap in the middle of the green - we call it the settlement hole, and all bets can be pressed if you so like.

[SavvySwede]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally Fairway

Par 3's are one of my pet peeves on some/most golf courses. There are many courses that seem to have all their par 3's that are the same club or at best 2 clubs for the round (typically 165-180).

If I were to design a course it would have 4 par 3's and they would be 9i/PW, 7i/8i, 5i/4i, hybrid/fairway wood - and the tee boxes would compensate for average length.

Hybrid / fairway wood par 3s always seem ridiculous to me. Getting that distance alone is hard enough with long clubs. Avoiding bunkers and the like is just making a bad situation even worse. The longest par 3 on the courses I play at is about 187 and that's hitting my 5/6 full out.

I think @ Wally Fairway has it right. I don't want to hit the same 2-3 clubs all the time I want to test the whole bag. Hybrid/fairway wood length par threes are not that bad. They usually take birdie out of play but you don't see a lot of doubles or triples on them either because they compensate for the length with larger/flatter greens and the bunkers set much further away from the playing surface.

[Patch]

To me, any par 3 is a test of accuracy. Short, medium, or long, the golfer needs their ball to hit, and stay on the green. This is what makes all par threes special. I would like to know if there is a stat out there that tells how many amateurs hit par 3s in regulation. Obviously the shorter, the more golfers that will hit them.  I have to believe that overall, par 3s will have a higher per hole stroke average, among amateurs than the par 4s, and 5s. This regardless of how short/long they are.

[WUTiger]

There's a course I play about once a year where they went too far the other way. Eagle Knoll GC, south of Columbia, MO, has four par 3s; three are short drop-shot holes - from elevated tees hitting over water.

They range from 120 to 136 yds. in length from the white tees. Some times the tees are up a few yards. I hate to feather a PW going over water, so I usually play the course from the blues tees. That way, I can hit a full 8i going across and not have to worry about the water or the hill behind the green.

(The blue tees also help on three longer holes. The blues are more elevated - you can see the landing area from the tee box, and don't have to hit a blind shot and risk losing a ball).

[SavvySwede]

To me, any par 3 is a test of accuracy. Short, medium, or long, the golfer needs their ball to hit, and stay on the green. This is what makes all par threes special. I would like to know if there is a stat out there that tells how many amateurs hit par 3s in regulation. Obviously the shorter, the more golfers that will hit them.  I have to believe that overall, par 3s will have a higher per hole stroke average, among amateurs than the par 4s, and 5s. This regardless of how short/long they are.

Pretty sure you have it backwards. For amateurs the par 3s are relatively easiest because amateurs are terrible with the driver. They put themselves in worse position for the approach than they would get from the tee position on a par 3.

Pros average higher on the par 3s because they drive the ball so well and par 4/5 holes generally have less protection around the green.

[iacas]

Pretty sure you have it backwards. For amateurs the par 3s are relatively easiest because amateurs are terrible with the driver. They put themselves in worse position for the approach than they would get from the tee position on a par 3. Pros average higher on the par 3s because they drive the ball so well and par 4/5 holes generally have less protection around the green.

It really depends on what level of amateur golfer you're talking about. Par threes are hard for all. For the worst two thirds, though, par fours and fives tend to be harder, yes.

[SavvySwede]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SavvySwede

Pretty sure you have it backwards. For amateurs the par 3s are relatively easiest because amateurs are terrible with the driver. They put themselves in worse position for the approach than they would get from the tee position on a par 3.

Pros average higher on the par 3s because they drive the ball so well and par 4/5 holes generally have less protection around the green.

It really depends on what level of amateur golfer you're talking about. Par threes are hard for all. For the worst two thirds, though, par fours and fives tend to be harder, yes.

That was pretty much what I had in mind. The amateur/pro was just an easier distinction to make because it was hard to come up with a true cutoff. I know even at my level par 4s and 5s are easiest because I have a lot more short irons from the fairway than a short iron on a par three.

[chasm]

[URL=http://www.brancepeth-castle-golf.co.uk/home.aspx?showmobile=no]My home course[/URL] has five par threes, two of them about 150 yards, both over ravines that require you to hit the green or risk big trouble.the signature hole of the course is a 200 yard par three, again over a ravine, which may be the most challenging par three I've played. It's the ninth, check out the video flyover on the linked website to get an idea. The course was laid out by Harry Colt in 1924. I'm told his approach was to look at the terrain, decide where he'd put his par threes, then fit the rest of the course around that. He knew what he was about, these are terrific holes.

[bubble]

got one par 3 of 130 meters to the top of the green, thats about 143 yards so yes it's a 9 iron or PW.

the thing is on a hill, hopefully you find a 9 foot deep bunker if on the side or else balle is lost in shrubs. there is and a huge break before the back. we have about 5 yards to find the plateau or we come back to the front and have 3 putts.

we have 2x220 yards par 3 that on average I score better

[NJpatbee]

I belonged to a course that was built in 1929 and had a par 3 that was 217 from the Whites and 245 from the Blues.  Hickory shafts and dimpled rubber balls?  The length and difficulty of this course always amazed me - a Charles Banks design.  There are par 3's of 142 and 158 from the whites, but they are both over 170 from the blues.

[SavvySwede]

I belonged to a course that was built in 1929 and had a par 3 that was 217 from the Whites and 245 from the Blues.  Hickory shafts and dimpled rubber balls?  The length and difficulty of this course always amazed me - a Charles Banks design.  There are par 3's of 142 and 158 from the whites, but they are both over 170 from the blues.

That is pretty impressive. Maybe it was a short par 4 at the time? Or perhaps redesigned at some point? What is the name of the course?

[onthehunt526]

At least it's not like the 8th at Oakmont... lol

[onthehunt526]

I played one par three last year that was 98 yards from the whites (I played a social round)... that you had to be deadly accurate with your wedge because it had high grass left and right water long, and a bunker short

[NJpatbee]

That is pretty impressive. Maybe it was a short par 4 at the time? Or perhaps redesigned at some point? What is the name of the course?

The Knoll West CC currently owned by Parsippany Township but was originally a private club.  The clubhouses have been redone.  It is a bit unusual for a municipal golf course to be private, but residents get a big discount.  They do book some leftover tee times to the general public so you can get on but have to pay a premium.  If you are in the North Jersey area it is very well worth playing.  As a Charles Banks course you will find some elevated greens protected by deep bunkers in addition to some distance.  Have a great time if you play and say hello to Mike and Jerry for me.  Also - Do not confuse the Knoll CC West with the Knoll CC East as they are next to each other - totally different courses with the West being top caliber.

[RayG]

Because designers want to challenge these new pros and their 175 yard 9 irons. They've designed courses to match the juiced yardages of today's pro clubs. They'll make a 510 yard par four because these guys regularly bang out 320 yard drives and 180 yard 8 or 9 irons. The only real time they get some challenge is when they convert a par 5 to a 4. The green is usually small and well protected since it's meant to be hit with a wedge by normal people.

[imsys0042]

I've played that hole. Once before it was re-done. Then again after. It does not qualify as a "short par three." The tenth and fourteenth holes there do, though.

I don't remember the 14th but the 10th is a devilish hole. When I played it about 115 with elevated tee and a tiny two tiered green. I'd you hit above the hole you cannot put down and keep the ball on the green. Really tricky but fun

[jsgolfer]

Every course should have a short par three with a small, well-guarded green. They're tougher than people think, so they can really mess with you if you're not careful. They cost less (less distance, smaller green surfaces to manage, etc.) and they're fun. I get tired of hitting five-irons to four par-threes per round. Boooooooring.

I so agree, all 4 par 3's at my course are 180-190 yards, pretty much hit the same club on every hole. Very boring, the only hole that is different is that we added a way back tee on one hole, so instead of a 190 yards hole, from the tips it plays 225 up hill and typically into the wind.