The Tiger Woods/PED Thread

[boogielicious]

Byron Nelson won 11 times in a row.

Retired before he was caught.

Guilty.

He went to a Doctor once too!

[jamo]

He went to a Doctor once too!

My doctor was arrested for receiving bribes from pharmaceutical companies when he was and was found to have been overprescribing cholesterol medication. Therefore, I must be selling Lipitor on the streets. The evidence don't lie.

[Ernest Jones]

My doctor was arrested for receiving bribes from pharmaceutical companies when he was and was found to have been overprescribing cholesterol medication. Therefore, I must be selling Lipitor on the streets. The evidence don't lie.

The Goon takes BRIBES!!!! Scandal!!! :-P

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

He went to a Doctor once too!

My doctor was arrested for receiving bribes from pharmaceutical companies when he was and was found to have been overprescribing cholesterol medication. Therefore, I must be selling Lipitor on the streets. The evidence don't lie.

First statins, next beta blockers.  Then someday they will find you on the street all strung out on liver pills.  Sad.

[Golfingdad]

My doctor was arrested for receiving bribes from pharmaceutical companies

After you escaped from prison, were you able to convince Tommy Lee Jones that he had your wife killed by a one armed man and framed you for it???

[colin007]

God, Sela Ward was so pretty in that movie...sigh....

[jamo]

After you escaped from prison, were you able to convince Tommy Lee Jones that he had your wife killed by a one armed man and framed you for it???

Hey! That man prefers the term "[URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/82411/transabled/0_30]transabled[/URL]," thank you very much!

[Abu3baid]

Evidence does not mean what you seem to think it means.  The best evidence is the players's body.  And as I have stated before and @iacas has just reiterated, there is absolutely NO internal evidence of PED use by Tiger.  None of the indicators of injury, healing faster, body changes, etc that are incident to PED use are present UNLIKE the superstar athletes like Bonds and Clemens.   If Tiger used PEDs then he has to be the worst PED user ever and have the worst Drs., because for all your supposed "evidence" there is not a shred of an indication let alone evidence, evidence that he EVER got any PE if he WAS using them.   So where is the PE in Tiger's carer?  What has he done that was out of context with the career arc he established at age 3 on the Mike Douglas show?  Where is the big jump like the one Bonds had between the ages of 22 and 28?    You have absolutely nothing but guilt by association and speculative rumormonging.  None of which is evidence.

I have never said in any of my posts that his use of PED is extended over his career.. If I didn't make it clear I will say that I don't believe he used them except during the extensive witch doctor visits.. So, no he isn't your typical PED user and you are not going to see any body changes or anything like that you see with people like bonds or others like him.. This was a one off IMO, and as the article provided by Scott he tiger came back strong we than ever, didn't get injured and dominated and won every award available.. If it wasn't for the book that came out no one would have ever known that the visits were over 50... Poor Haney denied he knew anything about the visits until he finally broke down and said that he attended 3-4 and he did see anything.. Of course you didn't Haney.. I hope my position is clear now and you won't ask for evidence of body changes through out his career as I at no point said his use was extensive and through out the career, and I don't remember reading anyone making that claim either..

[Gunther]

C"mon peeps, it's pretty much a known quantity that Tiger used PEDs at some point in his career. I played with 30 guys today. To a man, they believe it and most are die-hard Tiger fanboys. The circumstantial evidence is too great. I know it but still appreciate that he is one of the GOAT. It helped him in his workouts; he's paying the price now. Is what it is. Not sure it'll ever come out publicly but jeez, it's purty obvious at this point.

[saevel25]

C"mon peeps, it's pretty much a known quantity that Tiger used PEDs at some point in his career.

Nope

Not even close

[Gunther]

Nope Not even close

That's what they said about ARod and Lance too. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, guess what, it's usually a duck. What I'm reading here in the disputing of reality posts are understandable attempts to preserve integrity and greatness in the world of sport and having a kid who competes at a high level in sport, I definitely appreciate it. And, I think we can get there again through testing and I hope we do. But you can't change the past and ole Tigs indulged in his youth, it helped him but I'm still willing to call him the 2nd best of all-time, with no reservations.

[newtogolf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunther

C"mon peeps, it's pretty much a known quantity that Tiger used PEDs at some point in his career. I played with 30 guys today. To a man, they believe it and most are die-hard Tiger fanboys.

The circumstantial evidence is too great. I know it but still appreciate that he is one of the GOAT. It helped him in his workouts; he's paying the price now. Is what it is. Not sure it'll ever come out publicly but jeez, it's purty obvious at this point.

You mean this circumstantial evidence?

Quote:

An attorney for the chief witness in the Anthony Galea case said that one of the controversial Toronto physician's most famous clients, Tiger Woods , never received performance-enhancing drugs while a patient of Galea.

Rod Personius, who represents Galea's former assistant Mary Anne Catalano , told the Daily News Monday in an email, "I tell you categorically that Tiger did NOT receive either banned or performance enhancing drugs when treating with Dr. Galea."

[Mulligan Jeff]

The doctor that performed the platelet-rich plasma therapy on Tiger had ties to PED's which raised eyebrows. But nothing ever surfaced linking Tiger to PED's.

[saevel25]

That's what they said about ARod and Lance too. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, guess what, it's usually a duck.

Yet, you are comparing apples to oranges. Lance actually failed a drug test. A-Rod was actually caught taking shots he claimed were not steroids, and then lied to the MLB.

There is no evidence showing Tiger ever took steroids. There is no evidence besides he worked with a doctor well known for dealing with PRP.

There is nothing remotely similar to what was found with Lance and A-Rod.

I would say you are hearing fake duck noises and you might want to get that checked out

But you can't change the past and ole Tigs indulged in his youth, it helped him but I'm still willing to call him the 2nd best of all-time, with no reservations.

Indulged in what, women? Then yea he did. In steroids, there is no proof at all.

[iacas]

C'mon.. That's not like you Erik.. If that is the case then take the Tiger loving glasses off and look at things objectively..

Labeling me for holding an opinion one way or another doesn't really further this conversation much IMO. Plus, your wrong I don't hate him, nor have any feelings one way or another towards him...

Just admit that you hate him and we can all move on. Because from where I'm sitting, you either hate him and are looking at anything to reinforce your opinion, or you lack the ability to reason.

On one side you have "he knows a guy." The super-weak "guilt by association" despite NO OTHER EVIDENCE pointing to TW being the recipient of PEDs and the doctor being WELL-KNOWN for PRP therapy, which is legal and which TW admits receiving, which also aligns with the treatment of his particular surgery and injury.

On the other side you have many, many pieces of evidence, most all of which are stronger than the above. You have countless people close to Tiger saying he didn't do it. You have a history of body size that doesn't correspond. You have Tiger being injured. You have Tiger not recovering from injuries very quickly. Tiger's name not appearing on any lists. Galea, Galea's assistants, etc. specifically saying that TW didn't receive PEDs.

So let's make each piece of evidence, regardless of how weak it was, a period.

Here's what that looks like.

Tiger did PEDs: .

Tiger didn't do PEDs: ..............

How unreasonable do you have to be to choose the first one? Like I said, just admit that you hate Tiger Woods… because if you'd rather insist that you don't hate the guy, then you simply look to be an incredibly unreasonable person.

It's a general rule, but there are exceptions like you helping your cousin.

No, it's not a general rule.

My point was that everyone says how no one sees the effect of PED on tiger, but there it is.. He avoided injury, dominated the field, and won every golf award right after coming back from injury and the time of his relationship with the witch doctor.. Plus no one back then knew the extent of the visits not what was happening in then since it is only the doctor and woods.

Really? Do you not see just how freaking goofy this post - which you made several times in a few different forms - really is?

- He avoided injury? Uhhhhh, huh? Have you been paying attention? When exactly has Tiger "avoided injury?"

- He dominated the field? He's Tiger ****ing Woods, dude. Was he doing PEDs in 2000? 1997? 2005? When exactly did he "dominate the field" that you would ascribe to PEDs? And how do you account for, I don't know, the other 60 or 70 PGA Tour events, the other 14 majors Tiger Woods won? You do realize his last major victory was in 2008, right? BEFORE he had the knee surgery, BEFORE Galea, etc.

- Won every golf award? Maybe because, I don't know, he might be the greatest player of all time, and in 2009 he was arguably in the prime of his career (early to mid 30s)? Don't good golfers tend to win awards?

Double-

[Gunther]

Yet, you are comparing apples to oranges. Lance actually failed a drug test. A-Rod was actually caught taking shots he claimed were not steroids, and then lied to the MLB.  There is no evidence showing Tiger ever took steroids. There is no evidence besides he worked with a doctor well known for dealing with PRP. There is nothing remotely similar to what was found with Lance and A-Rod.  I would say you are hearing fake duck noises and you might want to get that checked out :-P   Indulged in what, women? Then yea he did. In steroids, there is no proof at all.

No one knew Lance failed a drug test, like no one knows Tiger has or hasn't. Look, I was all about some Lance Armstrong. I believed his worn out line that he passed hundreds of tests (he did). But, he cheated his way around them and found a way to hide the one he failed. After he was found out, I lost faith in the modern sportsman. I don't believe everyone uses PED'S but if the evidence points that way, then yeah, you're guilty in my mind. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if Phil indulged himself. It was the Era and these guys did miraculous things.

[Abu3baid]

Just admit that you hate him and we can all move on. Because from where I'm sitting, you either hate him and are looking at anything to reinforce your opinion, or you lack the ability to reason. On one side you have "he knows a guy." The super-weak "guilt by association" despite NO OTHER EVIDENCE pointing to TW being the recipient of PEDs and the doctor being WELL-KNOWN for PRP therapy, which is legal and which TW admits receiving, which also aligns with the treatment of his particular surgery and injury. On the other side you have many, many pieces of evidence, most all of which are stronger than the above. You have countless people close to Tiger saying he didn't do it. You have a history of body size that doesn't correspond. You have Tiger being injured. You have Tiger not recovering from injuries very quickly. Tiger's name not appearing on any lists. Galea, Galea's assistants, etc. specifically saying that TW didn't receive PEDs. So let's make each piece of evidence, regardless of how weak it was, a period. Here's what that looks like. Tiger did PEDs: . Tiger didn't do PEDs: .............. How unreasonable do you have to be to choose the first one? Like I said, just admit that you hate Tiger Woods… because if you'd rather insist that you don't hate the guy, then you simply look to be an incredibly unreasonable person. No, it's not a general rule.   Really? Do you not see just how freaking goofy this post - which you made several times in a few different forms - really is? - [COLOR=FF0000]He avoided injury?[/COLOR] Uhhhhh, huh? Have you been paying attention? When exactly has Tiger "avoided injury?" - [COLOR=0000FF]He dominated the field?[/COLOR] He's Tiger ****ing Woods, dude. Was he doing PEDs in 2000? 1997? 2005? When exactly did he "dominate the field" that you would ascribe to PEDs? And how do you account for, I don't know, the other 60 or 70 PGA Tour events, the other 14 majors Tiger Woods won? You do realize his last major victory was in 2008, right? BEFORE he had the knee surgery, BEFORE Galea, etc. - [COLOR=008000]Won every golf award?[/COLOR] Maybe because, I don't know, he might be the greatest player of all time, and in 2009 he was arguably in the prime of his career (early to mid 30s)? Don't good golfers tend to win awards? Double-:doh: :doh:

I don't hate him, in not sure what you get out of trying to paint me as someone who hates him.. The quote was from an article that talked about Tiger after the treatments, I didn't come up with it, the article was provided by Scott.. you probably just didn't read all of the posts previous to the one you are quoting.. So, basically you disagree that the plasma treatments worked for him? Because that was the argument used by the author that it did.. I'm starting to believe that your tiger loving glasses are clouding your judgement.. Do you see how silly that sounds? So can you please just drop the you hate Tiger bid? My evidence is not he knows a guy. You are making that up.. My evidence is he got plasma or whatever other treatments from the guy.. And the extent of the treatments was exposed in a book along with the findings of the Florida health department investigation. It is in those treatments I believe he most likely had a little something added. All the other points you made I have already discussed, we just don't agree let's move on.. We can't all have the same opinion...

[billchao]

My evidence is not he knows a guy. You are making that up.. My evidence is he got plasma or whatever other treatments from the guy.. And the extent of the treatments was exposed in a book along with the findings of the Florida health department investigation. It is in those treatments I believe he most likely had a little something added.

Where are these findings that he had PED's added to his treatments? I'd love to read the reports.