2015 NFL Football Thread

[saevel25]

I agree with your apprehension.  When a family spokesman says something along the lines of "He has the physical skills to be an NFL quarterback, but he is not mature enough to be one.", I would worry.  It is such a hit or miss pick.  Teams can be set back for years if they get a Ryan Leaf or JaMarcus Russell.  Tampa won the Superbowl with Brad Johnson, who was a good QB, but not elite.

I'd call the Browns and find out how happy they are with "Johnny Football".  Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt but Winston appears to be another kid that received little guidance and discipline from his parents and coaches.  He learned at an early age he could get away with a lot of things because he was a star QB and athlete.

He has the athleticism but as we've seen in the past that's not enough for a QB to make it in the NFL.

This isn't like Jamarcus Russell who had all the talent with a cannon arm and athletics, but no football IQ. Winston is smart. He's football smart. Remember, Winston was offered a scholarship to go to Stanford.

I think Winston will thrive in the NFL. I am not rooting for him to succeed. I just think his mind for the game and his talents will make him at top 10 QB in 3-4 years.

[newtogolf]

This isn't like Jamarcus Russell who had all the talent with a cannon arm and athletics, but no football IQ. Winston is smart. He's football smart. Remember, Winston was offered a scholarship to go to Stanford.

I think Winston will thrive in the NFL. I am not rooting for him to succeed. I just think his mind for the game and his talents will make him at top 10 QB in 3-4 years.

I compared him to Johnny Football, who I also don't put in the same category as Russell.  He may be book smart but the controversy that he's been surrounded in throughout his college years demonstrate poor judgment.   I wish him the best but he has to prove he can stay out of trouble.  I would hate to see him having to get an adjoining room next to Johnny Football at a rehab center.

[turtleback]

Is Chip Kelly the guy who convinces Tebow he can be a productive football player if he just stops insisting he is a QB? As a NY Giants' fan I have been nervous about this possibility for a while. I hope Tebow stays stubborn.

[newtogolf]

Is Chip Kelly the guy who convinces Tebow he can be a productive football player if he just stops insisting he is a QB? As a NY Giants' fan I have been nervous about this possibility for a while. I hope Tebow stays stubborn.

I doubt it, Tebow is determined to be a QB and has spent a lot of time and money trying to improve his throwing motion.

[turtleback]

I doubt it, Tebow is determined to be a QB and has spent a lot of time and money trying to improve his throwing motion.

As a Giants fan, I hope you are right.

[phan52]

Tebow will never be an Eagle. Chip just likes to be on the front page of every sports website out there. Plus he likes the kid and is giving him a chance to get some reps since they don't know when Bradford will be ready for football activities.

[onthehunt526]

Tebow will never be an Eagle. Chip just likes to be on the front page of every sports website out there. Plus he likes the kid and is giving him a chance to get some reps since they don't know when Bradford will be ready for football activities.

Isn't Tebow just ahead of the Waterboy on the depth chart?

[newtogolf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

Tebow will never be an Eagle . Chip just likes to be on the front page of every sports website out there. Plus he likes the kid and is giving him a chance to get some reps since they don't know when Bradford will be ready for football activities.

Quote:

NFL quarterback Tim Tebow has signed a one-year contract with the Philadelphia Eagles, despite not having played in the NFL since 2012. Tebow was released by the New England Patriots before the 2013 season and spent last year working in television.

I'd say he's an Eagle.

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

Tebow will never be an Eagle . Chip just likes to be on the front page of every sports website out there. Plus he likes the kid and is giving him a chance to get some reps since they don't know when Bradford will be ready for football activities.

Quote:

NFL quarterback Tim Tebow has signed a one-year contract with the Philadelphia Eagles, despite not having played in the NFL since 2012. Tebow was released by the New England Patriots before the 2013 season and spent last year working in television.

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I'd say he's an Eagle.

One year non guaranteed contract on April 15th. We'll see when they strap it up for real in September.

IMO. Chip is just getting him some reps. They have the same agent.

[newtogolf]

One year non guaranteed contract on April 15th. We'll see when they strap it up for real in September.

IMO. Chip is just getting him some reps. They have the same agent.

I didn't know they shared an agent, I guess Chip is doing him a favor.  With Bradford recovering and possbily being used as trade bait it might not be so bad to have Tebow on the sidelines.

[Gunther]

How about dat Jerrah Jones?? Three 1st rounders this draft! Truth be told, I only give Jerry credit for Collins. He charmed him and his family...what a steal. Best OL in the NFL just got better!

[jsgolfer]

How about dat Jerrah Jones?? Three 1st rounders this draft!

Truth be told, I only give Jerry credit for Collins. He charmed him and his family...what a steal. Best OL in the NFL just got better!

Dallas has a great chance to make a run this year.

[newtogolf]

How about dat Jerrah Jones?? Three 1st rounders this draft!

Truth be told, I only give Jerry credit for Collins. He charmed him and his family...what a steal. Best OL in the NFL just got better!

True, if Collins stays out of jail it's the steal of the draft.

[dsc123]

I didn't plan on bringing this discussion here, but the other thread has been closed...

One thing about the latest example of the Patriots cheating that burns me is that the talking heads don't even read the report.  I just watched Bill Simmons and Dan Patrick talk about the issue and they both agreed that Brady was right to refuse to turn over his phone because his whole life is probably on there.  The report clearly says he was only asked to have his lawyer hand over texts/emails about inflating or deflating the ball.  Get the simple facts right.

Another is all these people saying "there's no evidence" because there's no direct evidence, only circumstantial.  You know who else tried that defense?  The Patriot's TE that was convicted of murder based on circumstantial evidence.

Quote:

It’s been frequently noted that the case against Aaron Hernandez for the murder of Odin Lloyd is based on circumstantial evidence rather than direct evidence. No murder weapon has been found and no cooperating eyewitness exists. The absence of direct evidence is clearly a positive for Hernandez’s chances to avoid a conviction. But as demonstrated in Massachusetts Superior Court Judge Susan Garsh’s courtroom on Wednesday—the 15 ^th day of the trial—circumstantial evidence can sometimes prove powerful and damning.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/02/25/aaron-hernandez-trial-day-15-circumstantial-evidence

And lastly, the nonsense about 51% or "more probable than not."  That doesn't mean that there was only a 51% likelihood, that means the 51% threshold was met or exceeded.

Quote:

Under the Policy, the “standard of proof required to find that a violation of the competitive rules has occurred” is a “Preponderance of the Evidence,” meaning that

“as a whole, the fact sought to be proved is more probable than not.”

Wells was charged with determining whether it was more probable than not that the guys cheated.  He found that it was.  It doesn't mean that a higher standard couldn't have been satisfied, it just means that the applicable threshold was met.

These are such simple, right/wrong things that everybody who defends the Patriots are getting wrong.

[Golfingdad]

And lastly, the nonsense about 51% or "more probable than not."  That doesn't mean that there was only a 51% likelihood, that means the 51% threshold was met or exceeded.

I beg your pardon???  You calling "moi" wrong?  Suggesting something that I said is "nonsense?"

That's absurd!!  I've never said anything in my life that was nonsense.  (I've also never been hyperbolic either)

So ... there!!

---

Go Chargers!

[dsc123]

I beg your pardon???  You calling "moi" wrong?  Suggesting something that I said is "nonsense?"

That's absurd!!  I've never said anything in my life that was nonsense.  (I've also never been hyperbolic either)

So ... there!!

Go Chargers!

black and white!

I'll be happy if he gets 2 games, even though I think he should get more.  There's no way Jimmy Garoppolo beats the Buffalo defense.

Now if it can get as high as 10 games.....they could miss him twice.

Seriously, this has really major implications on the division.  The Bills and Dolphins are closing the gap, but if Brady misses a 4 games or more...that might be all it takes.

[jsgolfer]

I didn't plan on bringing this discussion here, but the other thread has been closed...

One thing about the latest example of the Patriots cheating that burns me is that the talking heads don't even read the report.  I just watched Bill Simmons and Dan Patrick talk about the issue and they both agreed that Brady was right to refuse to turn over his phone because his whole life is probably on there.  The report clearly says he was only asked to have his lawyer hand over texts/emails about inflating or deflating the ball.  Get the simple facts right.

Another is all these people saying "there's no evidence" because there's no direct evidence, only circumstantial.  You know who else tried that defense?  The Patriot's TE that was convicted of murder based on circumstantial evidence.

And lastly, the nonsense about 51% or "more probable than not."  That doesn't mean that there was only a 51% likelihood, that means the 51% threshold was met or exceeded.

Wells was charged with determining whether it was more probable than not that the guys cheated.  He found that it was.  It doesn't mean that a higher standard couldn't have been satisfied, it just means that the applicable threshold was met.

These are such simple, right/wrong things that everybody who defends the Patriots are getting wrong.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.  So the threshold is vague text messages, Tom not turning over his text messages and a 1 min 30 sec  bathroom break.  So in your scenario and the Ted Wells report, Brady said these footballs before the game are good, but then tells the equipment Manager to steal the balls, hide somewhere and let air out of the ball.  Without any regard to how much air, or did he have time to check the air pressure as well.  If all of the balls were various psi levels, did Tom say, I don't care the pressure as long as they are softer.  Is that anywhere ion the report, did the two equipment people ever say Tom told them to lower the pressure in the footballs.  You would think that they would fess up if they did, it didn't look like they liked Tom all that much.

So supposedly, Tom Brady was so uptight about the pressure in the football, he would have someone let air out the balls willy nilly to get them softer?  And it's just as probably that during the checking of footballs by Brady that he grabs a ball and says it's too hard, take some air out of this one (Hence I'm the deflator), doesn't necessarily mean he told them to deflate the balls after they had been checked by the refs.

This report is a piece of crap.  And comparing deflating of footballs to a murder trial is pretty lazy.

[dsc123]

I guess we'll agree to disagree.  So the threshold is vague text messages, Tom not turning over his text messages and a 1 min 30 sec  bathroom break.  So in your scenario and the Ted Wells report, Brady said these footballs before the game are good, but then tells the equipment Manager to steal the balls, hide somewhere and let air out of the ball.  Without any regard to how much air, or did he have time to check the air pressure as well.  If all of the balls were various psi levels, did Tom say, I don't care the pressure as long as they are softer.  Is that anywhere ion the report, did the two equipment people ever say Tom told them to lower the pressure in the footballs.  You would think that they would fess up if they did, it didn't look like they liked Tom all that much.

So supposedly, Tom Brady was so uptight about the pressure in the football, he would have someone let air out the balls willy nilly to get them softer?  And it's just as probably that during the checking of footballs by Brady that he grabs a ball and says it's too hard, take some air out of this one (Hence I'm the deflator), doesn't necessarily mean he told them to deflate the balls after they had been checked by the refs.

This report is a piece of crap.  And comparing deflating of footballs to a murder trial is pretty lazy.

Come on.  Clearly my point was that if circumstantial evidence is good enough to put someone away for life for murder then its good enough to suspend the golden boy for a couple games. Because murder is so much more serious.

And which part do you disagree about?  Can you answer these with a yes or no?  That would help avoid misunderstandings.

1 Do you think Tom Brady was asked to turn over his entire phone, instead of just the incriminating text messages?

2 Do you think that no circumstantial evidence can be sufficient to establish that the patriots cheated?

3 Do you think that the conclusion of the report that cheating was "more probable than not" was an indication that a higher standard was not met?

And I'll add this:

BONUS: You agree that the ball guy took the balls to the bathroom after they were checked and put a pin in them to deflate them right?

I'm not saying its black and white that Tom Brady orchestrated this thing (I think he did, but unless he admits it we can never know for certain).  I'm saying the conversation is false because those three black/white, right/wrong issues are not understood by the people who are talking about the issue.