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2015 Masters Discussion Thread

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More than "v hard" - pretty much impossible for the everyday golfer.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/golf-masters/2010-04/how-tough-augusta-knuth

Augusta plays about a 78 Rating, with a 136 Slope at 7400 yards.

It is a tough course, but not the toughest course played by PGA Tour players and not the toughest played by Amateurs. Heck TPC Sawgrass is 76.8 with a 155 slope at 7200 yards.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Martin

More than "v hard" - pretty much impossible for the everyday golfer.

How do you figure? Heck, Oakmont is tougher. Tons of courses are tougher and played by the average golfer.

The member tees at Augusta National aren't even very long.

I believe he was referring to the chances of actually playing the course, not how hard the course is.

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I believe he was referring to the chances of actually playing the course, not how hard the course is.


You're right. I was wrong.

The original post said ANGC was a very hard course to get to play . Not "a very hard course to play." I must have skipped over "to get" or something.

Sorry. My bad. I was wrong.

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When I was there on Wednesday, I was amazed. I was expecting food prices to be outlandish, but the prices were more than reasonable. The bathrooms were constantly being cleaned by several volunteers and you were greeted warmly everywhere.

Could not agree more. I was with two sponsors and never really purchased anything, but I heard the same thing. I think the warm greetings go deeper than just plain old customer service. It's very genuine. They want people to have a good time. That club has a standard of excellence unmatched anywhere in golf, maybe in all sports. They really respect the game, the players, the champions and the patrons. It is a special place. I hope to be invited back next year.

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It was two kinds of "-18's". Tiger really took apart that course with his length and dominated in that fashion. He was hitting wedges into par-5s for Christ's sake. He was hitting it so far they had to "Tiger proof" after that. Spieth is a much shorter hitter, but he dominated with the putter. Jordan's putting is ridiculously impressive and he is extremely smart and manages the course so well.

I do think if you put today's field back in '97 on that course, Tiger still wins, but maybe not by 12 shots. I'm sure with Rory's length, he would be double digits under par. Obviously Jordan would be up there as well. But this is all hypothetical. I just think the Tiger of '97-'99 would have a little bit harder time in today's field than he did back then. Just my opinion.

How much length does Rory have with steel shafted persimmon headed drivers hitting pre-ProV1 balls?  Maybe one of the reasons Tiger would have a hard time would be that the equipment has made it easier for players of lesser ability to compete?  At least that is what Jack said.  He said that the improvements in technology make it harder for the best players to separate themselves.  Not saying that applies to Rory or Jordan.

But Tom Watson averaged the same distance in 2014 on the Champions tour as he averaged in 1980 on the PGA tour.  He was 24th in driving distance (at 266 yards!?!) in 1980 on the PGA tour.  Although he didn't play enough to appear in the rankings, his 2014 driving distance (267) would not have gotten him into the top 50 on the Champions tour.

I'm very comfortable saying Tiger will Not win another major as well.

I was comfortable saying the same thing about Jack back in early '78.

I am tiger hater. I havent had anything good to say about his attitude in a long time. But...if he wants to come back, to quit saying fu*ck off the tee, to show show class as he earns what nobody is going to give him, then I think he will improve the competition. He was maybe 17th in the field? So he can earn it forward. If he can.

I wonder what that translates to in English.

You're right. I was wrong.

Sorry. My bad. I was wrong.

Wait, I thought you never admit it when you are wrong.  I wonder if skydog will admit he was wrong about you never admitting you are wrong.  LOL

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How much length does Rory have with steel shafted persimmon headed drivers hitting pre-ProV1 balls?  Maybe one of the reasons Tiger would have a hard time would be that the equipment has made it easier for players of lesser ability to compete?  At least that is what Jack said.  He said that the improvements in technology make it harder for the best players to separate themselves.  Not saying that applies to Rory or Jordan.

No doubt that Jack's comments hold true but Rory is probably the last person to apply that theory to. When the guy is on, his swing and ball striking are more impressive IMO than Tiger's in his prime (Note: Ball striking, not entire game. Tiger's short game was miles ahead of Rory's) and this has little to do with technology.

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I don't buy that crap about technology allowing players of lesser ability to compete. I do agree with Gary Player on "the harder you practice the luckier you get".

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No doubt that Jack's comments hold true but Rory is probably the last person to apply that theory to. When the guy is on, his swing and ball striking are more impressive IMO than Tiger's in his prime (Note: Ball striking, not entire game. Tiger's short game was miles ahead of Rory's) and this has little to do with technology.

1. Recency bias. 2. Tiger hate. Take your pick-It is one of the two.

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I don't buy that crap about technology allowing players of lesser ability to compete. I do agree with Gary Player on "the harder you practice the luckier you get".


It makes sense. And a lot of people who you'd hope would know have said it.

That's why game-improvement clubs exist. They help make a crappy player a bit less crappy.


The same still applies on the PGA Tour.

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1. Recency bias.

2. Tiger hate.

Take your pick-It is one of the two.

I could not be more tired of hearing this on here. I far from hate Tiger, praise his game (in his prime) quite frequently, and am very glad to see him back playing. I just said his short game was miles ahead of Rory's and I routinely say that his best was better than anyone else to play the game. I simply said I think Rory at his best is a slightly better ball striker than Tiger was. Not anywhere close to a hateful statement nor anywhere close to saying that Rory is or will be better than Tiger.

As for recency bias, perhaps. I was wowed when I first saw Tiger swing. I feel similarly when I see Rory swing now.

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I could not be more tired of hearing this on here. I far from hate Tiger, praise his game (in his prime) quite frequently, and am very glad to see him back playing. I just said his short game was miles ahead of Rory's and I routinely say that his best was better than anyone else to play the game. I simply said I think Rory at his best is a slightly better ball striker than Tiger was. Not anywhere close to a hateful statement nor anywhere close to saying that Rory is or will be better than Tiger.

If you're not a hater (I'd tend to agree), either you're right about Rory vs. Tiger's ballstriking, or if you're not, you may have a recency bias. I think maybe you might forget how good Tiger was.

Plus, "at their best" is a bit of a throw-away, because Tiger, when not in the middle of a swing change, was at or near his best almost all the time. His down weeks would be his A- game. Rory's down weeks have him +4 through six holes. Tiger, when he was #1 in the world, almost never missed cuts. He played well week after week after week. Rory, heck, the first half of last year people were wondering what in the heck was going on with him…

That speaks to their ball striking too, but includes EVERY week, not just the times when they're "at their best." I don't think we could ever really determine who is better "at their best." I think we have to be content to say they're both just "pretty good" at their best. Tiger's consistency, when #1 in particular, pushes him over the edge for me in terms of "who is a better ball-striker."

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I don't buy that crap about technology allowing players of lesser ability to compete. I do agree with Gary Player on "the harder you practice the luckier you get".

Mr. Palmer said that originally.

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