Christine Brennan writes horrible Masters column about Spieth and Woods for some reason

[jbishop15]

It's not 1950 anymore. It is a falsehood golf is some kind of preservation society for gentlemanly conduct.

Especially since it's never been gentlemanly in the first place.

[ajw426]

You get to have your opinion (we all do), but I don't think you realize how few people you have left to root for if that's your standard. Virtually EVERY PGA Tour golfer swears. If you have kids, you don't let them drink booze, right? But when they turn 21, then what? I think the counter-point is we hold people to different standards based on the circumstances. Tiger is not 13 - we require better behavior of our own children than we do of the same people as adults. Additionally, he's not even to be held to the same standard as a guy playing recreationally - he's an athlete performing his athletic duties. Tiger's a grown man playing a highly competitive sport. Are you a fan of any football teams? Hockey teams? Basketball teams? Or are they allowed to swear (or whatever) because they're not "gentleman's games"? P.S. Obviously you're free to hold Tiger to the same standards as your own children, but… that's unusual. That's all I'm saying, not that you should or shouldn't do anything in particular.

Fair points. I (as do those I play with) hold myself to higher standards while on the course out of respect for the game. It was the way I was taught the game. I guess that can be seen as unrealistic or old school (I don't get bent out of shape over it, but it's my preference). Off of the course issues don't really bother me for players, either. I just like for them to be generally respectful on the course. In my casual fan observances, most players' actions do not bother me. Tiger's actions seem to make me roll my eyes much more than the average golfer. He is a professional athlete, and I respect the hell out of him. He is a competitor to the max, and I don't blame him for an acting which ever way he feels gives him the best chance to win. I'm honestly surprised his on course behavior doesn't rub more the wrong way. Not really a Tiger hater, just more annoyed while watching him (especially when it is poorly). I've said more than my 2 cents, so there you all have it. I'll let you back to the Tiger love fest :)

[Rick Martin]

Tiger Woods does not act as a gentleman on the golf course. I would have been whipped into shape very quickly by my father and/or Jr. High golf coach at the age of 13 if I acted like he does on the course. I am surprised that this isn't a turn off to more people, and many seem so obsessed with him regardless.

TW brought in the non-golf crowd - people who've never touched a club --many who have been football fans, NBA, MLB fans - and they're not aware that golf is a sport where sportsmanship is a key characteristic.  They see nothing wrong w/ poor manners on the golf course.

[jbishop15]

TW brought in the non-golf crowd - people who've never touched a club --many who have been football fans, NBA, MLB fans - and they're not aware that golf is a sport where sportsmanship is a key characteristic.  They see nothing wrong w/ poor manners on the golf course.

This is why people are so negative about golf. The sanctimony and self-righteous rhetoric that comes out of this sport is really something else. Just so insulting to so many people.

[RFKFREAK]

Look at this gigantic piece of shit she wrote.  I mean, read this ****ing thing.  I guess we shouldn't be surprised, because when nationally known sports columnists write about golf (or mostly, just write) they're awful.  But this one is particularly bad. [URL=http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2015/04/12/jordan-spieth-changing-of-the-guard/25686819/]http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2015/04/12/jordan-spieth-changing-of-the-guard/25686819/[/URL] Some highlights: [COLOR=333333]First, if I also won, where's my goddamn check?  I'm about to buy a new car.  I could use it.  But spare me this sanctimonious moral king-making we constantly want to do with athletes in all sports, particularly golf.  Jordan Spieth is probably a good guy.  I like him.  But we don't need to make him into Jesus Jr., who will save our youth athletes from celebrating.  [/COLOR] [COLOR=333333]Speaking of celebrating (emphasis mine):[/COLOR] [COLOR=333333]Ooo, fist pumping. Uber -fist pumping, even. What is in Christine Brennan's mind that we have to set Tiger Woods up as some kind of villain to clash with Jordan Spieth's pureness?  Some other ******* sports writer did this when Mickelson won the 2010 Masters, contrasting Mickelson's sick wife with Tiger banging Hooters waitresses while Elin was at home taking care of the kids.[/COLOR] [COLOR=333333]Tiger should definitely cut down on the swearing, but all he's really been guilty of is being a bad husband.  Why does he get turned into Aaron Hernandez?  Michael Jordan cheated on his wife with at least eight women (please, it was surely more) as was outlined in his divorce agreement.  Jordan has never been a villain.  Why is Tiger?  Because it's golf, I guess?  [/COLOR] [COLOR=333333]And don't make these assumptions about people we don't know.  We don't know--for sure--that Jordan Spieth doesn't have flaws. Frankly, I'd like him more if I found out that he chugged a beer in New York last night, while getting blown by two strippers, all while wearing his green jacket.  Now that's a guy I would root for.[/COLOR] [COLOR=333333]I'll leave with this, from Brennan:[/COLOR] [COLOR=333333]In the words of Tiger Woods:  Oh my ****ing God.[/COLOR]

Just based on the portions of the article that you quoted, I've decided against reading it because it'll just make me roll my eyes. The levels of stupidity are more than I care to handle. Uber fist pumping is apparently a really terrible thing. Will she be rescinding her comments if Spieth makes a commercial where a company has him promoting their product in a direct way rather than subtly by asking folks to not text and drive? I may be doing myself a disservice by not reading this article but after reading those excerpts, I doubt very much there's anything in the future I'd want to read by the author. Tiger really showed some terrible sportsmanship here: [VIDEO]https://youtu.be/vDvfmXAyYKE[/VIDEO] [quote name="jbishop15" url="/t/81399/christine-brennan-writes-horrible-masters-column-about-spieth-and-woods-for-some-reason/0_100#post_1130519"]This is why people are so negative about golf. The sanctimony and self-righteous rhetoric that comes out of this sport is really something else. Just so insulting to so many people.  [/quote] Seriously. It's amazing to me how people view golf as a gentlemanly sport, thereby implying it's more refined than other sports, when the individuals who play it and are held to such a high esteem have exhibited behaviour which can hardly be described as gentlemanly.

[dkolo]

TW brought in the non-golf crowd - people who've never touched a club --many who have been football fans, NBA, MLB fans - and they're not aware that golf is a sport where sportsmanship is a key characteristic.  They see nothing wrong w/ poor manners on the golf course.

I think they're plenty aware. You're just comparing Tiger and the current game to some platonic ideal that just doesn't exist in reality.

[RFKFREAK]

I think they're plenty aware. You're just comparing Tiger and the current game to some platonic ideal that just doesn't exist in reality.

Or, maybe it's just that people don't really care about the history of a game which, until Tiger, catered only to the wealthy and created an air of snobbery.

[Scotsclaff]

This is why people are so negative about golf. The sanctimony and self-righteous rhetoric that comes out of this sport is really something else. Just so insulting to so many people.

Your comment is insulting to me.

[RH31]

TW brought in the non-golf crowd - people who've never touched a club --many who have been football fans, NBA, MLB fans - and they're not aware that golf is a sport where sportsmanship is a key characteristic.  They see nothing wrong w/ poor manners on the golf course.

Very true. Golf etiquette is not emphasized enough for those new to the game.....

This is why people are so negative about golf. The sanctimony and self-righteous rhetoric that comes out of this sport is really something else. Just so insulting to so many people.

......and when it is, very often the result is similar to what is stated above. Golf is a hard game. Learning and applying proper etiquette when playing golf only makes a hard game even harder.

So it's plain to see why tiger's on course etiquette is rarely challenged and often times defended. It would mean less interest in the game. Which in turn means, less money for those who make a living off of golf.

So,If you can't attract more interest/money to the game by teaching it the proper way, with proper etiquette, just lower the standards and the volume of those interested increases.

[Dave2512]

Golf ettiquette and dropping an f-bomb two different things. Silly things like fist pumping have been brought into this thread as if it's a new thing. More less the same thing Palmer did after winning the open with his visor toss. If you believe what other tor pros say Tiger is beyond considerate taking care to not do things where the gallery following him could disrupt them. If people want golf to grow and survive they will have to accept it's not an exclusive game only accessible to the rich and mollycoddled. Courses are struggling to survive. If Tiger creates interest we should be grateful.

[Gunther]

This is why people are so negative about golf. The sanctimony and self-righteous rhetoric that comes out of this sport is really something else. Just so insulting to so many people.

[quote name="Scotsclaff" url="/t/81399/christine-brennan-writes-horrible-masters-column-about-spieth-and-woods-for-some-reason/80_40#post_1130545"] Your comment is insulting to me. [/quote] Concur. Sanctimony and self-righteousness? Look in a mirror.

[Golfingdad]

Golf ettiquette and dropping an f-bomb two different things. Silly things like fist pumping have been brought into this thread as if it's a new thing. More less the same thing Palmer did after winning the open with his visor toss.

You just reminded of d Jack Nicklaus clip.  I don't remember the event (likely either a US Open or British Open) but after he holes his final putt to win he launches his putter into the sky.  On longer clips (as opposed to the one below) you never see it return to earth.  It either went into orbit or did not go straight up.

So, which is more detrimental to the etiquette of the game; a fist pump or a steel bladed putter helicoptering into either the putting green or a spectators skull??

(It cuts off right at the toss, but its the first one in this video.  You've likely all seen it before) ...

[iacas]

So, which is more detrimental to the etiquette of the game; a fist pump or a steel bladed putter helicoptering into either the putting green or a spectators skull??

Actually it almost hit Doug Sanders, his fellow competitor.

[DaveP043]

You just reminded of d Jack Nicklaus clip.  I don't remember the event (likely either a US Open or British Open) but after he holes his final putt to win he launches his putter into the sky.  On longer clips (as opposed to the one below) you never see it return to earth.  It either went into orbit or did not go straight up.

That's the last putt of the playoff at the British Open at St Andrews, I believe in 1970.  Doug Sanders missed a 2-footer on the last on Sunday to end up on the playoff with Jack.  The putter did come back to earth, nearly hitting Sanders, but that's the only time I can remember Nicklaus doing anything similar.

I have to say that I'm rather dismayed by the tone of many of the posts in this thread.  No matter of the viewpoints, whether you love Tiger or hate him, love Ms. Brennan or hate her, I believe we owe all the other members of this forum a little more respect and civility than what I see.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferguson

Talk about going off on tangents. Palmer, Bolt, Watson, global warming???

I read the article. It speaks to the mind of this author. This article was about much more than just Tiger, Jordan and the 2015 Masters.

This author was on a mission.

If you care to recall, Ms. Brennan wrote an article back in 2002 about The Augusta National and their lack of female members when Hootie Johnson was chairman. She portrayed The Augusta National as an old fashioned, male-only club for bigots. Ms. Brennan, in penning this article, took another opportunity to take a bra-burning, female shot at the golfing male contingent. This time, instead of taking aim at a club of men, she picked on Tiger. I truly believe she sees Jordan as the antithesis of Tiger, not because Tiger is evil, but because Jordan was reserved in his reactions. I saw Jordan as a kid who was in total shock that he won (don’t get me wrong – he’s fully capable). I think he conducted himself with a quiet reserve and did a great job. He was just being himself in that very moment. For Ms. Brennan to say that Tiger's swearing, or his reaction to a holed putt is wrong speaks volumes about how she views men in general.

I believe, without actually saying it, Ms. Brennan took full advantage in this article to point out that Jordan handled himself more like a woman than a man.

So off base if you know the facts. Jordan was obsessive about Augusta growing up. Even during high school, he received permission to skip classes and go to the library and watch it on his computer. When he placed 2nd last year, he wanted the tourney to start the next day so he could win.

He fully expected to win.

Jordan conducts himself like a well behaved man who wants to win -- he attempts to keep his emotions in check, and let's them out by talking to the ball. He also reign in the profanity on the course.

As to the remainder of your contention, I think you want to see more than what actually exists. But that's not surprising given the DufAmanda thread.

Jordan Spieth's lack of visible emotion on the course puts him right in the same basket with 90% of the players on Tour today.  The PGA Tour is vanilla, aside from a few like Tiger and Phil who show some emotion or find a way to connect with the fans.  Spieth could win 20 majors and never move golf's popularity meter.  Tiger is still 4 short of Jack and he's an international celebrity.  Spieth is a fantastic player, he may be a wonderful human being, and he may rewrite all of the record books, but unless he gets a personality transplant, he can never take Tiger's place in promoting golf to the masses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GolfLug

Seems like the article is written in mommy mode. Technically, nothing wrong with what she stated. I wonder why articles like these need to be written.

because her POV promotes sportsmanship in the sport

Not really.  Her point of view promotes a fictitious idea of purity in the sport, something which does not and never really has existed at the professional level.  Walter Hagen, probably the first American professional golfer to gain a level of fame, was a notorious gambler and hustler.  That had little to do with sportsmanship on the course.  Tiger shows good sportsmanship, and I've never really seen him do anything that I would consider heinous.  Dropping a club?  Pumping a fist?  This is bad sportsmanship?  Not from where I stand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

You get to have your opinion (we all do), but I don't think you realize how few people you have left to root for if that's your standard. Virtually EVERY PGA Tour golfer swears.

If you have kids, you don't let them drink booze, right? But when they turn 21, then what?

I think the counter-point is we hold people to different standards based on the circumstances. Tiger is not 13 - we require better behavior of our own children than we do of the same people as adults. Additionally, he's not even to be held to the same standard as a guy playing recreationally - he's an athlete performing his athletic duties. Tiger's a grown man playing a highly competitive sport.

Are you a fan of any football teams? Hockey teams? Basketball teams? Or are they allowed to swear (or whatever) because they're not "gentleman's games"?

P.S. Obviously you're free to hold Tiger to the same standards as your own children, but… that's unusual. That's all I'm saying, not that you should or shouldn't do anything in particular.

Fair points. I (as do those I play with) hold myself to higher standards while on the course out of respect for the game. It was the way I was taught the game. I guess that can be seen as unrealistic or old school (I don't get bent out of shape over it, but it's my preference). Off of the course issues don't really bother me for players, either. I just like for them to be generally respectful on the course. In my casual fan observances, most players' actions do not bother me. Tiger's actions seem to make me roll my eyes much more than the average golfer. He is a professional athlete, and I respect the hell out of him. He is a competitor to the max, and I don't blame him for an acting which ever way he feels gives him the best chance to win. I'm honestly surprised his on course behavior doesn't rub more the wrong way.

Not really a Tiger hater, just more annoyed while watching him (especially when it is poorly).

I've said more than my 2 cents, so there you all have it. I'll let you back to the Tiger love fest :)

I respect the game of golf as much as anyone, but I also curse on occasion.  I've never thrown a club, but I've dropped them in disgust, similar to what Tiger dies.  For me respect for the game involves knowing and playing by the rules, using proper etiquette (when I cuss, I don't scream it out - it's usually in a low voice that can't be heard more than 10 feet away - but I still do it).  Most of all it's about showing respect for the course and the players on the course, and an occasional descent in to gutter speech is not bad form if it's kept discreet.  The problem is that Tiger always has a camera crew right on top of him, and often a parabolic mic aimed at him, so we hear his bombs far more than we do any others.  His cursing would probably not be that apparent at the distance separation that players usually have when playing together.

As many here lament, Tiger still gets heavy coverage even when he's playing poorly, so we see him when he's frustrated with his game and with himself.   It's natural that he is more likely to let some words slip that are better not broadcast, but that's the burden of a  live broadcast.  He was essentially an army brat, his dad was a career soldier, so I would suspect that Tiger heard a few choice words growing up.  That would tend make his idea of what is allowable and normal quite different from what the son of a minister might believe.

[Dave2512]

But Jordan's emotion on the course varies as his play varies. People were critical of him in 2014 for running hot during the Masters. I don't think any of this means squat. The media is always trying to declare a "new" Tiger. Jordan has a long way to go and will have stiff competition. For him to earn new Tiger status he has to surpass all the other new Tiger's, Rory being the most formidable. He could just as easily become the new David Duval.

[Lastpick]

I enjoy the fist pumps, club throwing and club breaking.  The only thing I would prefer that the pros tone down a bit if GD and F bombs.  But hey, if I don't want to watch it, I can turn the channel.  I'm still in shock that looks as if I won't get to play Augusta National.

[Dave2512]

The profanity isn't new either just easier to hear due to technological advances in broadcasting. Back in the day you could barely follow the ball now courses are mic'd up so you get high def sound for balls splashing in hazards.