Did Haney read Lowest Score Wins?

[DrvFrShow]

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2015-07/the-four-shots-you-need-hank-haney?mbid=social_twitter

This advice ripped from the pages of LSW. Erik, you guys should get a column in the magazine and make some extra money.

[Shindig]

An instruction article in Golf Digest that might improve peoples' scores? That's the world coming to?

[mdl]

I noticed that too and thought, "Haney on the LSW bandwagon!"

[jamo]

If he Instagrams a picture of him enjoying a cold drink with the caption "Just practicing my mid-range bunker shots!" we'll know he's on the bandwagon.

[jbishop15]

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2015-07/the-four-shots-you-need-hank-haney?mbid=social_twitter

This advice ripped from the pages of LSW. Erik, you guys should get a column in the magazine and make some extra money.

On Twitter Haney actually gives pretty solid advice, but his magazine stuff is usually uniformly awful. Glad to see that's changed, if only briefly.

[iacas]

[jbishop15]

So do you know for sure he's read it?

[iacas]

So do you know for sure he's read it?

No.

[ChrisWev]

List of shots you don't need to hit anymore (my interpretation, from no statistics whatsoever ):

1: If you used a 15-17 degree club but with the same size head as the driver would this not help? Launching at 22 degrees as opposed to 17 for a basic test example (not sure if it works out like this) this has better carry and the same total on FS trajectory optimiser (based on 130mph ball speed). Less loft on the club is less danger/ slice as far as D-Plane goes? Obviously you're not going to get the roll on the odd one.

Will the reduction in smash factor kill this theory or would strike improve keeping the SF up?

2: Yeah "favourite yardage" is a load of crap, get as close as you can if it's safe to do so. No point hitting a Wedge to leave you 100 out when you can hit a 7 to leave you 50 out (if you can hit your 7 ok, that is), which is usually a safe area of the course.  If you're not better from 50 yards than you are from 100 there is something wrong.

3: If you're not great at irons or miles away aim for the middle or lay up if it's dangerous.

4: I chip better from the fringe than I putt (if it's more than 20ft), easily. Saying that I do use a sort of putting motion with my SW, not sure what to call this shot.

[saevel25]

1: If you used a 15-17 degree club but with the same size head as the driver would this not help? Launching at 22 degrees as opposed to 17 for a basic test example (not sure if it works out like this) this has better carry and the same total on FS trajectory optimiser (based on 130mph ball speed). Less loft on the club is less danger/ slice as far as D-Plane goes? Obviously you're not going to get the roll on the odd one.

Will the reduction in smash factor kill this theory or would strike improve keeping the SF up?

Depends on the golfer.

3-woods are an interesting club because they have 15 degrees of loft, but they actually would launch lower because the CG is actually relatively higher compared to that of the driver at impact. Also most people hit down with the 3-wood as well. I basically try to sweep the ball with the 3-wood.

The delivered loft might not be that far off from a driver if you compare someone who hits up on the ball with the driver. PGA Tour average launch angle for a driver is 10.9 degrees versus 9.2 with a 3-wood, and the 3-wood probably has like 5-6 degrees more loft.

I believe less loft = more chance to slice. The reason being that lower lofted clubs produce higher spin angles because there is less loft directed in the vertical direction. This is why the miss for short irons and wedges are pulls and pushes rather than hooks and slice. It's very hard to hook a wedge unless you present the club with a tremendous amount of forward shaft lean to de-loft it.

4: I chip better from the fringe than I putt (if it's more than 20ft), easily. Saying that I do use a sort of putting motion with my SW, not sure what to call this shot.

Your worst putt is your best chip ;)

As long as the fringe is overly shaggy, or just beat up I'll putt it 99% of the time. Or if there is some funky green feature that I'd rather just pitch over. Like lets say your on the fringe and you have a big mound between you and the hole that is 40 feet away but it's pretty flat from lets say 20 feet from the hole.

[inthehole]

Quote:

Your worst putt is your best chip ;)

I used to agree but not not so much anymore.

The one case when my worst putt may be equally bad if not worse than my worst chip is putting from the fringe (say >4' of fringe).    I can miss a putt by 10-15 from the fringe fairly easily - I truly have more confidence eliminating the fringe by chipping over it nearly every time.

[Jeremie Boop]

Your worst putt is your best chip ;)

I'm not sure I totally agree with that. My best chips are right by the hole or in the hole and my worst putts are nowhere near the hole. On average, for me, they are roughly equal in average distance from the hole. The difference is I don't get a chance to putt from the fringe/fairway often due to poor course conditions. I think it's more of a comfort thing really and if I really took the time to get comfortable and learn how to control distance putting from off the green I would end up better with the putter than the wedge.

[Abu3baid]

I'm not sure I totally agree with that. My best chips are right by the hole or in the hole and my worst putts are nowhere near the hole. On average, for me, they are roughly equal in average distance from the hole. The difference is I don't get a chance to putt from the fringe/fairway often due to poor course conditions. I think it's more of a comfort thing really and if I really took the time to get comfortable and learn how to control distance putting from off the green I would end up better with the putter than the wedge.

Agree.. I hate putting from the fringe unless there is like 1-2 feet of fringe only.. Let's say there is 5 feet of fringe I have no idea how much power to put into my hit, and even then I have no idea how the ball would react.. Just make things simple and chip it on to the edge of the green.. Different strokes for different folks I guess..

[billchao]

Agree.. I hate putting from the fringe unless there is like 1-2 feet of fringe only.. Let's say there is 5 feet of fringe I have no idea how much power to put into my hit, and even then I have no idea how the ball would react.. Just make things simple and chip it on to the edge of the green.. Different strokes for different folks I guess..

Yea, the putting from off the green thing is highly dependent on course conditions. If you're playing at a nice club where everything is mowed tight, you can putt the ball from the fairway (probably stimps 7 or 8). However, if you play in goat tracks where the green barely stimps 8, chances are the fairways and fringes are going to be much slower. Longer grass will likely result in erratic roll as well. There are some courses I've played where I have putt the ball out of greenside rough, and the same course in a different season where I refuse to putt the ball from the fairway. Some courses, I won't ever putt from off the green. It just depends on the conditions and the circumstances of the shot needed. Basically, like everything else, it's a generalization, not a hard and fast rule. I will add that it's one of those things that take very little practice to get used to, so if you start trying it you may be surprised at the results.

[saevel25]

I used to agree but not not so much anymore.

The one case when my worst putt may be equally bad if not worse than my worst chip is putting from the fringe (say >4' of fringe).    I can miss a putt by 10-15 from the fringe fairly easily - I truly have more confidence eliminating the fringe by chipping over it nearly every time.

Unless the fringe is well maintained, I am not putting from over 4 feet off the fringe. I'm more thinking you just missed the green and ended up on the 1-2 feet of fringe that is typically found. Still, the odds are you are not going to chunk or blade your pitch with a putter from 4' off the fringe. In the long run, putting is better.

I'm not sure I totally agree with that. My best chips are right by the hole or in the hole and my worst putts are nowhere near the hole. On average, for me, they are roughly equal in average distance from the hole.

I agree, I've seen you putt

[ChrisWev]

Depends on the golfer.

3-woods are an interesting club because they have 15 degrees of loft, but they actually would launch lower because the CG is actually relatively higher compared to that of the driver at impact. Also most people hit down with the 3-wood as well. I basically try to sweep the ball with the 3-wood.

The delivered loft might not be that far off from a driver if you compare someone who hits up on the ball with the driver. PGA Tour average launch angle for a driver is 10.9 degrees versus 9.2 with a 3-wood, and the 3-wood probably has like 5-6 degrees more loft.

I believe less loft = more chance to slice. The reason being that lower lofted clubs produce higher spin angles because there is less loft directed in the vertical direction. This is why the miss for short irons and wedges are pulls and pushes rather than hooks and slice. It's very hard to hook a wedge unless you present the club with a tremendous amount of forward shaft lean to de-loft it.

Your worst putt is your best chip ;)

As long as the fringe is overly shaggy, or just beat up I'll putt it 99% of the time. Or if there is some funky green feature that I'd rather just pitch over. Like lets say your on the fringe and you have a big mound between you and the hole that is 40 feet away but it's pretty flat from lets say 20 feet from the hole.

Ahh ok, I've not looked into launch angles for pros with 3w, but I've heard amateurs with driver should be aiming for about 17 degrees launch? I know what you mean with common 3 woods (fairway woods) being low launch and hitting down when on the deck, what I'm thinking of is basically just setting the driver to 17 degrees etc, same COG, just launch it higher and less slice due to changing the D-Plane etc.

Sorry I miss wrote that about the slice thing, yes you're correct (same as what I meant to write) less loft = more danger due to D-Plane etc.

Haha, you've not seen me putt or chip . I would bet $50 that from 25ft+ and 1m into the fringe that by me putt-chipping with my SW I'll score better overall. I rarely chip from the fringe from 10-20ft though. I'll put this to the test after I get back from holiday.

[Slowcelica]

Why do people hate on Haney so much, I don't think he is really that bad there are far worse out there. I disagree also on the "worst putt is as good as my best chip", my best chip is in the hole, my worst putt is off the green. I think the better wording is most people's average putt is better than thier average chip. If I putt from the fringe 10 times and chip from the fringe 10 times I'm going to be closer to the hole after putting more than if I'm chipping.

[dkolo]

Why do people hate on Haney so much, I don't think he is really that bad there are far worse out there.

I disagree also on the "worst putt is as good as my best chip", my best chip is in the hole, my worst putt is off the green. I think the better wording is most people's average putt is better than thier average chip. If I putt from the fringe 10 times and chip from the fringe 10 times I'm going to be closer to the hole after putting more than if I'm chipping.

People hate on Haney for a number of reasons. He's been pretty petty with respect to criticizing Tiger after their falling out. He often peddles bad advice (usually reflecting outdated thinking). I don't hate him, but I view his claims very suspiciously. I think his Haney Blueprint ads are hilariously bad: from the gunshot sound effect on the drives to the lousy swing he uses on one of the clips, not to mention his claims of like, what, 40 extra yards with one tip or something to that effect.