Rushing Because of Faster Players Behind

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

Wait, even if there's room in front you won't let them play through? Because you aren't slow? That's irrelevant, you are slower than them and if there is room for them to play through then the right thing to do is allow them to do so.

They way I play and how far I hit compared to them, I could have teed off and hit my second shot before they were even able to finish teeing off. Heck, their second shots wouldn't even have made it to my drive....

And what if they get held up ahead and we have to wait?

Since they were faster than you it means that you would have gotten held up anyway.  Just one group further back.  And for the minuscule possibility that this might happen you want to refuse to let them through?

I'm addressing fast play.

I'll try to be more clear- if I'm generally keeping up with the group ahead, but they're moving a bit faster because they're in carts and I'm walking, let's say they leave the green ahead and we're just teeing off, I have no reason to ask a group behind that is playing faster than normal to play through, why should I? the only thing that could happen is we'll get stuck waiting ahead.

I could argue that fast players create a problem on a course as well, because they're rushing it will cause the group behind to rush and then a wait happens, there's a perfect pace to golf, and thankfully I see it on my home course every weekend, because there's never a wait, and there's always golfers playing, its perfect.

No you are defending slow play.

And that bold statement is just nonsense.  You are "generally" keeping up but they are pulling away from you.  But you are not slow.  But whether or not you are slow is irrelevant.  The issue is whether you are slow er.

I think there's a stigma associated with playing slow, and no one wants to think of themselves as slow.

The stigma should apply to people who do not follow the general rule, slower groups should let faster groups play through.

Do the responses here give any indication that that is likely? Or rather that they are entitled to fire "warning shots" to kick one off the stump?

Stop being a drama queen.  No one defended anyone hitting anyone, but no one really believed you account of the events.  They were never held up at all, they didn't reach the 17th tee until you had cleared the 17th green.So in the time it took you to get to the green on 18 they played the whole 17th hole, hit their drives on 18 and were fast enough to hit into you.   And this was the first time they were within a shot of you.  And the problem is THEIR speed golf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwave916

OK, this thread was an interesting read. Bottom line to me is don't overthink this stuff.....if you can't keep up with the group ahead of you let faster players behind you play through.

Should one sit for 15 minutes to allow this to happen?

If necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretzel

Or you could have let them play through if the course was open ahead of you as well, avoiding any possible confrontation and resulting in a happy ending for all parties involved.

I was playing a couple of weeks ago with some friends who are not regular golfers and they were very slow. A twosome caught up to us very quickly and, while I usually let people play through at the turn, I noticed that it was stressing one of my playing partners with those guys behind us. I waved them through and they waved back to go ahead and wouldn't hit. Finally, two holes later I just took my guys aside and waved them through again. They again resisted, so I had to walk back and ask them to please play through. IMO, they should have just played around us when they originally caught up, as twosomes do not have the right of way on our course, foursomes always do to encourage players to pair up and not mess up the pace of play. That is what I always do, that way nobody gets distracted. Of course, sometimes there is nowhere for a twosome to go so they are just sh*t out of luck. I wouldn't play in a twosome (or as a single) in that circumstance, even if people let you play through. It makes the pace of play even worse.

Another casual, in passing, statement that explains part of the slow play problem.

I love these little "policies" people make up for themselves to justify their slow play and rude behavior.  Nowhere in the etiquette section does it say that slower players should wait for the turn to let faster players through.  Nowhere does it say that you should only let players through f they reach the tee before you tee off.  Yet people make up these little "rules" for themselves and then are surprised when others do not like it.

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

I was playing a couple of weeks ago with some friends who are not regular golfers and they were very slow. A twosome caught up to us very quickly and, while I usually let people play through at the turn, I noticed that it was stressing one of my playing partners with those guys behind us. I waved them through and they waved back to go ahead and wouldn't hit. Finally, two holes later I just took my guys aside and waved them through again. They again resisted, so I had to walk back and ask them to please play through. IMO, they should have just played around us when they originally caught up, as twosomes do not have the right of way on our course, foursomes always do to encourage players to pair up and not mess up the pace of play. That is what I always do, that way nobody gets distracted. Of course, sometimes there is nowhere for a twosome to go so they are just sh*t out of luck. I wouldn't play in a twosome (or as a single) in that circumstance, even if people let you play through. It makes the pace of play even worse

.Originally Posted by turtleback

Another casual, in passing, statement that explains part of the slow play problem.

I love these little "policies" people make up for themselves to justify their slow play and rude behavior.  Nowhere in the etiquette section does it say that slower players should wait for the turn to let faster players through.  Nowhere does it say that you should only let players through f they reach the tee before you tee off.  Yet people make up these little "rules" for themselves and then are surprised when others do not like it.

Excuse me, but I don't take slow play lightly and I don't "make up little rules". The fact is that twosomes do not have the right of way as an official rule at our club. The reason is because constantly letting twosomes through messes up the pace of play even worse for everybody else. They are encouraged to pair up or to even go to an open spot on the course but they shouldn't have expectations that everybody is going to let them play through. I personally never linger behind a foursome and I always either go around them (if it is open) or find someplace else on the course that is open.

[Hatchman]

Excuse me, but I don't take slow play lightly and I don't "make up little rules". The fact is that twosomes do not have the right of way as an official rule at our club. The reason is because constantly letting twosomes through messes up the pace of play even worse for everybody else. They are encouraged to pair up or to even go to an open spot on the course but they shouldn't have expectations that everybody is going to let them play through. I personally never linger behind a foursome and I always either go around them (if it is open) or find someplace else on the course that is open.

That may be worse etiquette to go around or backwards at the start to find a place on the course that is open. I usually let them know where I stand when this happens if it causes me to then wait. Of course I know you were waived through however as a single or a double, right?

[jetsknicks1]

I was playing a couple of weeks ago with some friends who are not regular golfers and they were very slow. A twosome caught up to us very quickly and, while I usually let people play through at the turn, I noticed that it was stressing one of my playing partners with those guys behind us. I waved them through and they waved back to go ahead and wouldn't hit. Finally, two holes later I just took my guys aside and waved them through again. They again resisted, so I had to walk back and ask them to please play through. IMO, they should have just played around us when they originally caught up, as twosomes do not have the right of way on our course, foursomes always do to encourage players to pair up and not mess up the pace of play. That is what I always do, that way nobody gets distracted. Of course, sometimes there is nowhere for a twosome to go so they are just sh*t out of luck. I wouldn't play in a twosome (or as a single) in that circumstance, even if people let you play through. It makes the pace of play even worse.

I'm just curious why you felt you had to walk back to them and ask them to play thru if they had already declined twice? If they're not pushing you and are fine hanging back there playing at your pace, why should they feel forced to skip ahead because someone in your group doesn't like them being back there?

[phan52]

I'm just curious why you felt you had to walk back to them and ask them to play thru if they had already declined twice? If they're not pushing you and are fine hanging back there playing at your pace, why should they feel forced to skip ahead because someone in your group doesn't like them being back there?

I wasn't asking them to skip ahead, I was allowing them to play through. And yeah, I care more about the guy in my group than I do them. They were the ones in the twosome ruining the pace of the golf course, not us. Pushing us? Not necessarily, but they were always either standing on the tee or in the fairway watching our play. We were slower than usual but we were OK time-wise. Just go already if I am letting you go. There was nobody in front of us and, when they finally played through, they disappeared from sight. A win all around.

[colin007]

It bears repeating....3.5 hrs to play a round as a single is slow. Period. Full stop.

[Jon Hoover]

I wasn't asking them to skip ahead, I was allowing them to play through. And yeah, I care more about the guy in my group than I do them. They were the ones in the twosome ruining the pace of the golf course, not us. Pushing us? Not necessarily, but they were always either standing on the tee or in the fairway watching our play. We were slower than usual but we were OK time-wise. Just go already if I am letting you go. There was nobody in front of us and, when they finally played through, they disappeared from sight. A win all around.

Excuse me, but I don't take slow play lightly and I don't "make up little rules". The fact is that twosomes do not have the right of way as an official rule at our club. The reason is because constantly letting twosomes through messes up the pace of play even worse for everybody else. They are encouraged to pair up or to even go to an open spot on the course but they shouldn't have expectations that everybody is going to let them play through. I personally never linger behind a foursome and I always either go around them (if it is open) or find someplace else on the course that is open.

It is the courses fault for sending out a twosome what do you want the guys to do stay home because their isn't 2 more people to play with, the starter should pair them up otherwise if its not busy enough to be paired up then what can the course do? According to the USGA a twosome has as much right as a foursome. I doubt your course has an official rule that you shouldn't let faster twosomes play though, that seems highly unlikely.

[No Mulligans]

Played a round this morning with an early start time of 7:24.  Group 1 was slow, Group 2 was slow, I was in Group 3, Group 4 was really slow.  It was open ahead of Group 1 and they weren't being pushed because group 2 was just as slow.  We were waiting at every tee box, even still there was a gap behind us because group 4 was really slow.  We play that course in the early morning normally in 2 hours, walking (par 58 executive course).  Took us an extra 45 minutes this morning.  Normally I'm pretty patient, but it was getting under my skin as I was getting late for work.

In this case no group was aware that they were a problem, but it was still really slow.  I don't even see a solution to this example.

[jetsknicks1]

I wasn't asking them to skip ahead, I was allowing them to play through. And yeah, I care more about the guy in my group than I do them. They were the ones in the twosome ruining the pace of the golf course, not us. Pushing us? Not necessarily, but they were always either standing on the tee or in the fairway watching our play. We were slower than usual but we were OK time-wise. Just go already if I am letting you go. There was nobody in front of us and, when they finally played through, they disappeared from sight. A win all around.

I typed skip ahead but meant play thru, my bad. We're there groups being held up behind the twosome? If so, they probably should've played thru. If not, just how were they "Ruining pace of play"?

[rehmwa]

well, if there are three singles in a row, I'd expect them to join up in to one group

7 pages and finally this bit of obvious wisdom is put in play

thanks

(I like the idea of letting someone through, or them letting me through by just playing the same hole and the faster player moves forward faster - I do this a lot.  I also always first offer to combine groups - at least when it busy.)

I hate to pile on, but I think the two some did nothing wrong until that last shot - and they were apologetic.  It looks like they had to have been pacing to this slower single to avoid any conflict.  But then the single has the nerve to lecture them.  Just play your pace, keep up with what is in front and if that isn't happening, don't worry, once the group behind catches up, tee off together and let them play on ahead.  It's not rocket science.  And this method involves smiles and introductions and no lectures or fuming.

[phan52]

It is the courses fault for sending out a twosome what do you want the guys to do stay home because their isn't 2 more people to play with, the starter should pair them up otherwise if its not busy enough to be paired up then what can the course do? According to the USGA a twosome has as much right as a foursome. I doubt your course has an official rule that you shouldn't let faster twosomes play though, that seems highly unlikely.

Well, you would be wrong. It is stated very clearly at my club that foursomes have the right of way at all times on the course. They are not required to let singles or twosomes play through, it is at the foursomes' discretion. There is a very good reason for this. We have strict pace of play requirements and players are warned when they don't play in the required time and can be suspended for further infractions. It ruins the pace of play for twosomes to be playing through foursomes when the course is busy and a foursome can end up getting caught with a slow time.

Twosomes are not even allowed to start on the first hole at busy times for that reason and, when it isn't real busy, the starter always points singles and twosome to open spots on the golf course. But a lot of players just prefer to start on the first hole and that is their problem if they get held up.

[Jon Hoover]

Well, you would be wrong. It is stated very clearly at my club that foursomes have the right of way at all times on the course. They are not required to let singles or twosomes play through, it is at the foursomes' discretion. There is a very good reason for this. We have strict pace of play requirements and players are warned when they don't play in the required time and can be suspended for further infractions. It ruins the pace of play for twosomes to be playing through foursomes when the course is busy and a foursome can end up getting caught with a slow time.

Twosomes are not even allowed to start on the first hole at busy times for that reason and, when it isn't real busy, the starter always points singles and twosome to open spots on the golf course. But a lot of players just prefer to start on the first hole and that is their problem if they get held up.

I'd have to see it to believe it, and what studies are your referring to and what have they proved cite your sources pls.

[No Mulligans]

Well, you would be wrong. It is stated very clearly at my club that foursomes have the right of way at all times on the course. They are not required to let singles or twosomes play through, it is at the foursomes' discretion. There is a very good reason for this. We have strict pace of play requirements and players are warned when they don't play in the required time and can be suspended for further infractions. It ruins the pace of play for twosomes to be playing through foursomes when the course is busy and a foursome can end up getting caught with a slow time.

Twosomes are not even allowed to start on the first hole at busy times for that reason and, when it isn't real busy, the starter always points singles and twosome to open spots on the golf course. But a lot of players just prefer to start on the first hole and that is their problem if they get held up.

I agree with this when a course is full.

I've mentioned this several times on this site.  If a course is full, every time a group let's someone through it further slows down the pace of play for everyone behind them for the rest of the day.  I play Torrey Pines and it is always full.  I cringe when I see someone several groups ahead start letting people through as it slows down to a crawl unless you're fortunate enough to get pass the slow group.

Slow groups on full courses should not let players through, they should skip ahead a hole instead.

[Moppy]

Studies of Pace of Play

For those of you interested in a deep dive.

Just go to scholar.google.com and type in "golf pace of play" and there are a lot of studies.

Quote:

Managers have to decide whether they want a tee interval that guarantees a five-hour round, or to choose an interval that gives the golfing public a chance at a decent pace of play. Kimes and Schruben (2002) are perhaps in the best position to explain to management the relationship between interval and pace.

[rehmwa]

I agree with this when a course is full.

absolutely -

for slow 4-somes - catch up or skip ahead to close the gap

for singles, 2-somes, and 3-some - try to combine into a 4 some to reduce the number of total groups on the course

[colin007]

I hate to pile on, but I think the two some did nothing wrong until that last shot - and they were apologetic.

Yup. They were doing exactly what the OP was doing. Playing at their own pace.

[Moppy]

Yup. They were doing exactly what the OP was doing. Playing at their own pace.

There we go.

[Hatchman]