Presidential Race 2016

[Braivo]

Trump has done more to change the political discussion in this country than anyone in decades and he isn't even President yet. He has Obama fuming mad at him, he is in everyone's heads. If you can't see the game he's playing and only view him as "abrasive" I'm afraid there's not much we can debate. 

I'll restate again my main reason for supporting Trump: he is not bought and paid for by the establishment. By establishment I mean the power brokers that currently control everything in the US and throughout the world. The major banks and wealthy individuals that have enjoyed continued success under a status quo political system that benefited them no matter which party won office. 

Trump is the only individual anti-fragile enough to take on these powerful people and win. He is simply the last chance we have at wrestling control of our nation away from the groups that are pulling the strings. Clinton, Obama, and the conservative GOP are all in the pockets of Goldman Sachs and others. Trump is not, and this scares them a great deal. Scares them so much that people like Paul Ryan won't even endorse Trump for his own party's nomination. 

Sure, Trump is a spectacle. But he knows what he's doing and who he is up against. The most powerful people in the world stand to lose a great deal of their control under a Trump presidency. 

[newtogolf]

2 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Trump has done more to change the political discussion in this country than anyone in decades and he isn't even President yet. He has Obama fuming mad at him, he is in everyone's heads. If you can't see the game he's playing and only view him as "abrasive" I'm afraid there's not much we can debate. 

I'll restate again my main reason for supporting Trump: he is not bought and paid for by the establishment. By establishment I mean the power brokers that currently control everything in the US and throughout the world. The major banks and wealthy individuals that have enjoyed continued success under a status quo political system that benefited them no matter which party won office. 

Trump is the only individual anti-fragile enough to take on these powerful people and win. He is simply the last chance we have at wrestling control of our nation away from the groups that are pulling the strings. Clinton, Obama, and the conservative GOP are all in the pockets of Goldman Sachs and others. Trump is not, and this scares them a great deal. Scares them so much that people like Paul Ryan won't even endorse Trump for his own party's nomination. 

Sure, Trump is a spectacle. But he knows what he's doing and who he is up against. The most powerful people in the world stand to lose a great deal of their control under a Trump presidency. 

I agree with everything you've said except that he knows what he's doing.  Trump is making mistakes, some pretty big ones, because he lacks self control and discipline to create talking points and stick to those talking points.  He rambles on about topics he's not prepped to discuss, makes foolish statements that he later has to retract to do damage control for.  

Eventually people are going to raise their expectations of him (they already have) and expect that he conducts himself in a more professional manner than an 8th grader on the debate team.  Many people I know, including myself are growing tired of defending his off the cuff, ignorant statements he makes during some interview where he's not savvy enough to simply give a stock answer and avoid discussing topics he's not briefed on.  

In my opinion he has until the end of the summer to show growth in this major area and regain the confidence of those that supported him early on.  If he doesn't, his voting base will consist mostly of people that just refuse to vote for HRC and I'm not sure that's enough to win.  

[Braivo]

6 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I agree with everything you've said except that he knows what he's doing.  Trump is making mistakes, some pretty big ones, because he lacks self control and discipline to create talking points and stick to those talking points.  He rambles on about topics he's not prepped to discuss, makes foolish statements that he later has to retract to do damage control for.  

Eventually people are going to raise their expectations of him (they already have) and expect that he conducts himself in a more professional manner than an 8th grader on the debate team.  Many people I know, including myself are growing tired of defending his off the cuff, ignorant statements he makes during some interview where he's not savvy enough to simply give a stock answer and avoid discussing topics he's not briefed on.  

In my opinion he has until the end of the summer to show growth in this major area and regain the confidence of those that supported him early on.  If he doesn't, his voting base will consist mostly of people that just refuse to vote for HRC and I'm not sure that's enough to win.  

Right, I'm not saying I don't get frustrated with him too, but he seems to have a lock on persuasion techniques. He made similar "gaffes" during the GOP primaries but always seemed to bounce back.

In sales they talk about a closing technique that involves removing the final objection. Right now a ton of voters object to Trump because he appears wild and unpredictable. In September, when this race gets full attention with debates, etc. you'll seem him close the sale.

FWIW, I no longer try to defend his statements. Every one the issues ends up fading over time. He realizes there's a long way to go until November and his outrageous statements keep him in the news and relevant.  

[StevenR84]

18 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Every one the issues ends up fading over time

His bigotry isn't going anywhere, nor is his ability to spew nonsense that people just eat up regardless of how untrue it is.

[drmevo]

43 minutes ago, Braivo said:

He has Obama fuming mad at him, he is in everyone's heads. If you can't see the game he's playing and only view him as "abrasive" I'm afraid there's not much we can debate. 

I dunno, I think Obama's speech pretty successfully laid the smack down on Trump the other day, and while he showed visible anger, was still measured and calm - kind of what you'd like to see from a president.  He squashed the whole thing with not saying "Islamic Extremist" or whatever the term du jour the far right wants to hear him say. For Trump to say Obama doesn't understand the issue because he won't say those words is ridiculous - anyone with a brain can see that.  Also, for Trump to suggest that Obama doesn't care or is perhaps willing to help terrorists just continues to seal the fact that he is way out of touch with reality. I know many people like @newtogolf who have supported him but are starting to sense that he's not going to change in the way they had hoped. I think you're deluding yourself if you see anything more there.

Edited June 15, 2016 by drmevo

[GolfLug]

I don't think DT 'persuaded' any of his very ardent supporters in to supporting him. He luckily found resonance with them and THEY are carrying him. He had them at hello. He couldn't beat them away with a stick.   

[Silent]

36 minutes ago, StevenR84 said:

His bigotry isn't going anywhere, nor is his ability to spew nonsense that people just eat up regardless of how untrue it is.

Things like this?

And this is just one example, one could easily post pages of this kind of bull. If you didn't know any better it's almost like some kind of comedian is filling his timeline with stuff like this. 

[Chilli Dipper]

The latest Washington Post-ABC poll shows Donald Trump with a 70% unfavorability rating among all Americans, which is ten points worse than where he stood a month ago. Hillary Clinton's unfavorables stayed the same over that span.

Quote

Trump’s soaring unfavorables come after the real estate tycoon unleashed a fusillade of attacks against the “Mexican” heritage of an Indiana-born federal judge, prompting condemnation from both Republicans and Democrats. His negative rating among Hispanics reached 89 percent in the latest survey, the highest mark in Post-ABC polling yet in the 2016 race. 

Yet Trump also lost favor among non-college educated and independent voters, demographics that would be key to his victory in November. 

His negative rating among non-college graduates jumped from 55 to 68 percent over the past month, and from 57 to 68 percent among independents.

It's hard to see a way back from those kinds of numbers, but the election is still five months away.

[Dave2512]

9 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Trump has done more to change the political discussion in this country than anyone in decades and he isn't even President yet. 

He hasn't changed anything and he will never be President. All the Trump talk now is akin to rubbernecking as we pass by a fatal accident. You think he's brilliant, everyone else sees him throwing his chance away because he can't control his mouth and wades into the deep end unprepared. 

 

1 hour ago, Braivo said:

Right, I'm not saying I don't get frustrated with him too, but he seems to have a lock on persuasion techniques. He made similar "gaffes" during the GOP primaries but always seemed to bounce back.

In sales they talk about a closing technique that involves removing the final objection. Right now a ton of voters object to Trump because he appears wild and unpredictable. In September, when this race gets full attention with debates, etc. you'll seem him close the sale.

FWIW, I no longer try to defend his statements. Every one the issues ends up fading over time. He realizes there's a long way to go until November and his outrageous statements keep him in the news and relevant.  

In sales the objection typically isn't created by the salesman. If that is his plan he has it backwards. 

[Ernest Jones]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

Many people I know, including myself are growing tired of defending his off the cuff, ignorant statements he makes during some interview where he's not savvy enough to simply give a stock answer and avoid discussing topics he's not briefed on.  

I actually prefer it this way. Better to know his bigoted and ignorant mindset now, rather than finding out about it only after the votes have been cast.

[xcott]

Gary johnson

[Gunther]

11 minutes ago, xcott said:

Gary johnson

Don't think Gary would give you a 2nd Federal "Assault Weapons" Ban.

[xcott]

1 minute ago, Gunther said:

Don't think Gary would give you a 2nd Federal "Assault Weapons" Ban.

I won't.

[AbsoluteTruths]

Quote from this article: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/06/15/lessons-from-the-obama-administration-the-politics-determine-the-political-outcomes/

 

Quote

Fortunately, there are consistently visible signs the left is losing their argument.  There are growing signs of desperation within the behaviors of those who need to retain a ruse in order to continue their usurpation and elimination of freedom.  President Obama lashing out at Donald Trump yesterday was one such obvious sign.

If the left really felt Donald Trump was the caricature they portray him to be, they would not be exhausting any energy to isolate, ridicule and marginalize him.  The opposite is factually true.  If the progressive left felt Trump was easy to defeat they would not even need to attack.  It is their attacks that historically signify that which presents the greatest risk to them.

 

[newtogolf]

8 hours ago, Chilli Dipper said:

The latest Washington Post-ABC poll shows Donald Trump with a 70% unfavorability rating among all Americans, which is ten points worse than where he stood a month ago. Hillary Clinton's unfavorables stayed the same over that span.

It's hard to see a way back from those kinds of numbers, but the election is still five months away.

These numbers are worthless, there's a lot of time between now and November.  

[Chilli Dipper]

8 minutes ago, AbsoluteTruths said:

Quote from this article: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/06/15/lessons-from-the-obama-administration-the-politics-determine-the-political-outcomes/

 

 

So, it's a sign of weakness when the president doesn't speak with anger, but it's also a sign of weakness when he does?

[newtogolf]

2 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

So, it's a sign of weakness when the president doesn't speak with anger, but it's also a sign of weakness when he does?

Obama won't do anything right for the conservatives just as Trump won't for the liberals, it's just how it is.  They play to their party.  I liked seeing Barry fired up, too bad it was at Trump and not ISIS.  

[Dave2512]

Isn't ISIS getting the shit bombed out of them? Seems like every day there is news they are being pushed back and a figurehead is killed. Not sure it's worthwhile for the POTUS to get Game 7 rowdy about a terror organization. Who would that please?