Respect (Or Lack Thereof) for Singles/Walkers

[TourSpoon]

I don't see what the big deal is about a single playing 2 balls if it keeps him or her in pace and doesn't unduly hold anyone up. If I go out as a single it is usually to get some practice in and to just enjoy the day. Saying it uses more resources is a stretch and I tend to think that you could then say the same thing about a high handicapper which then sounds silly. If I am with my group playing and a single is just enjoying themselves behind us, doesn't want to play through and is hitting multiple shots, then more power to them. Just use common sense, be aware of other groups and have a great day. 

[drmevo]

36 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

Seems obvious to me. How long does it take to hit two balls vs one? The "resource" is time on the course, which is what you are paying for.

Let's use a a thought experiment if that's not clear. How about the single hitting 4 balls? Would that make sense?  Or why not 5 or 6 ?

@Jeremie Boop already covered it, but you must realize the contradiction in your points of view, right? You complain about singles being too fast and then say they shouldn't play a second ball because that would take too much time? As long as I don't push you or slow you down, why do you care?  

36 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

Hate is a strong word. I should say I exercise nothing but courtesy on the course - even if I disagree with the practice. I consider this an academic discussion. No need for name calling.

Again, as @Jeremie Boop said, there was no name calling here.  I think the most offensive post was yours where you said singles don't deserve the same level of respect as everyone else.  That's basically a middle finger to us singles. 

14 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

Saying it uses more resources is a stretch and I tend to think that you could then say the same thing about a high handicapper which then sounds silly.

I was going to say the exact same thing.  A high handicapper takes more shots, sometimes more time, and sort of "uses" more of the course.  Should they have to pay more or something? I don't think you'll find many people agreeing with you on any of this @gregsandiego.

 

Edited July 31, 2016 by drmevo

[gregsandiego]

9 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Time on course? Really? That's hilarious. If I'm waiting behind people I'm going to finish my round in the same amount of time if I play 2 balls or 1. Heck I have played two balls and still had to wait. You are paying for a tee slot on the course. Whether there is 1 or 4 of you in the tee slot you get the same exact amount of time to play. I've even been told by the person in the clubhouse "it's going to be a bit slow out there, you may want to play two balls" more than once when checking in as a single. And if the course is wide open taking more time is hurting nobody.

 

OK now I see how you are thinking. Most of the courses I play have 8 minute tee slots. So in theory that single player can use up his 8 minutes  between # 1 and #2 however he wants as long as he gets beyond driver range  (ideally on the green) in 8 minutes.

But this isn't reality. I think most foursomes would struggle to meet this 8 minute slot. 

The best thing a single could do would take advantage of the fact that he has a much better chance of doing it. And that would be by hitting his one ball and patiently waiting.

If he hits 2 balls I stand by my premise that he is paying for one and using resources of 2.

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, drmevo said:

 

I was going to say the exact same thing.  A high handicapper takes more shots, sometimes more time, and sort of "uses" more of the course. 

 

Agreed. Which is why if i hit a ball off into the woods I drop one if I don't find it within 30 seconds. 8 minutes is not a long time....

[JonMA1]

18 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

I don't see what the big deal is about a single playing 2 balls if it keeps him or her in pace and doesn't unduly hold anyone up. If I go out as a single it is usually to get some practice in and to just enjoy the day. Saying it uses more resources is a stretch and I tend to think that you could then say the same thing about a high handicapper which then sounds silly. If I am with my group playing and a single is just enjoying themselves behind us, doesn't want to play through and is hitting multiple shots, then more power to them. Just use common sense, be aware of other groups and have a great day. 

That's because it isn't a big deal. I have my pet peeves in life, but they are usually reserved for actions that actually have a negative impact on others or myself. Sorry @gregsandiego, I have to respectfully disagree.

---

@drmevo, I play almost exclusively as a single and just learned recently that we used to be looked down on. The way it was explained to me was that it causes pace issues because we often play too quickly. It's not without merit, but I believe attitudes are changing towards those of us who play as singles so long as we use common courtesy.

I don't have a problem waiting when the group in front is playing at a decent pace and I make an effort not to rush them. I actually hate playing through and will opt to skip the hole if the circumstances make that a logical choice.

[drmevo]

11 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

OK now I see how you are thinking. Most of the courses I play have 8 minute tee slots. So in theory that single player can use up his 8 minutes  between # 1 and #2 however he wants as long as he gets beyond driver range  (ideally on the green) in 8 minutes.

But this isn't reality. I think most foursomes would struggle to meet this 8 minute slot. 

The best thing a single could do would take advantage of the fact that he has a much better chance of doing it. And that would be by hitting his one ball and patiently waiting.

If he hits 2 balls I stand by my premise that he is paying for one and using resources of 2.

 

 

 

Agreed. Which is why if i hit a ball off into the woods I drop one if I don't find it within 30 seconds. 8 minutes is not a long time....

Check your logic.  That would make expected pace of play for 18 holes 2.4 hours.  I guess that course overbooks? 

[gregsandiego]

3 minutes ago, drmevo said:

Check your logic.  That would make expected pace of play for 18 holes 2.4 hours.  I guess that course overbooks? 

That's not my logic, it's just tee time reality. It doesn't mean they book each slot. But if they did yeah it would be ridiculously over booked. I'm sure you've heard these horror stories.

[drmevo]

6 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

That's not my logic, it's just tee time reality. It doesn't mean they book each slot. But if they did yeah it would be ridiculously over booked. I'm sure you've heard these horror stories.

I meant the 8 minutes per hole thing. That is most definitely not the expectation anywhere. But yes, I've definitely played overbooked courses and it sucks.

[Jeremie Boop]

1 minute ago, drmevo said:

I meant the 8 minutes per hole thing. That is most definitely not the expectation anywhere. But yes, I've definitely played overbooked courses and it sucks.

To be fair, he didn't say 8 minutes per hole, he said 8 minutes from the time you tee off to being on the green preferably. Which is pretty accurate as a 4 hour round is just over 13 minutes per hole which would include traveling from green to next tee.  So about 12 minutes on average to play a hole and just over a minute to get to the next. 

[drmevo]

12 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

To be fair, he didn't say 8 minutes per hole, he said 8 minutes from the time you tee off to being on the green preferably. Which is pretty accurate as a 4 hour round is just over 13 minutes per hole which would include traveling from green to next tee.  So about 12 minutes on average to play a hole and just over a minute to get to the next. 

I see now, thanks for the clarification.  

I still don't agree with the resources or taking too much time thing. After all, I preceded my comment by saying "When the course is slow," which implies I have plenty of time to play a second ball. 

 

[gregsandiego]

2 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

To be fair, he didn't say 8 minutes per hole, he said 8 minutes from the time you tee off to being on the green preferably. Which is pretty accurate as a 4 hour round is just over 13 minutes per hole which would include traveling from green to next tee.  So about 12 minutes on average to play a hole and just over a minute to get to the next. 

Yes but as I think about this eventually it WOULD require 8 minutes per hole to work or it all breaks down.

As an engineer with some manufacturing experience I find this an interesting subject. There should be some good simulation programs out there to help the courses manage this traffic.

4.5 hours for 18 holes is 15 mins.

4.0 hours for 18 holes is 13.33 mins

I know the buffer time is important. Good topic for a new thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[iacas]

Greg, playing a second or third ball doesn't slow players down anywhere like you seem to think. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[Strandly]

I've played as a single for all but maybe a half a dozen rounds in the 4.5 years I've been playing.  The only thing I don't like is not being able to schedule a tee time as a single and I've only encountered that in Idaho.  I basically have to just roll out there and hope I can play.

If the group ahead of me is playing in a timely manner I have no problem waiting on them but if they're slow I'll ride them close and cross arms, stare, etc.  haha  But normally I don't ask or expect to be asked to play through, I just take the position that if everyone plays in a timely manner then we'll all be happy and have a pleasant round.

[Patch]

If I am playing as a single walker, and the course takes my money, I don't worry about other groups on the course. 

First off I am never in hurry. If the group in front slows me down, it's no big deal. I can wait. If someone  wants to play through, or join me, that's not a problem either. 

The idea that allowing other golfers to dictate, or manipulate my game just never crosses my mind. I am out there for fun and relaxation. No one is going to ruin that for me. 

[Natural Patrick]

17 minutes ago, Patch said:

If I am playing as a single walker, and the course takes my money, I don't worry about other groups on the course. 

First off I am never in hurry. If the group in front slows me down, it's no big deal. I can wait. If someone  wants to play through, or join me, that's not a problem either. 

The idea that allowing other golfers to dictate, or manipulate my game just never crosses my mind. I am out there for fun and relaxation. No one is going to ruin that for me. 

Now that is what I call having a Great attitude.

[DrvFrShow]

In 1950 there were 151 million people. In 1968 when I first played there were about 180 million people. Now there are around 330 million people. My point is that people are starting to display the psychological behaviors associated with overpopulation. The ass**** factor comes out.

If I'm playing as a single, and this happens every so often, I play at the pace the course allows. If there's a foursome in front of me, I play at that pace. This may mean I end up playing at a very leisurely pace. I won't get upset by it. If the course is open, I can play a lot faster until I catch up to another group, but I'm not going to pressure them to play through if there's another group in front. They may offer for me to play through, but if there's another group in front what's the point? 

I've never had a problem with the drink cart not stopping for me. Of course I tip decently.

I have a philosophy: if you're going to have a lousy round at least look good while you're doing it. And don't be afraid to have a temper tantrum in the bunker after your third try, and laugh about it afterward. It's one place you're not going to destroy the course. Just make sure you rake it well before you move onto the next hole.

[gregsandiego]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

Greg, playing a second or third ball doesn't slow players down anywhere like you seem to think. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I didn't quantify it.

[RFKFREAK]

I only play at public or private/public courses and play a lot as a single.  I tend to play lots of different courses because I like seeing different ones.  That said, I don't think I've ever had anyone treat me badly as a single nor have I had the cart girl ever not at least acknowledge me as she is doing her job.

I don't do it but I don't have an issue with someone playing multiple balls provided they're not slowing things down.  It seems @gregsandiego is the only one ITT that doesn't like singles, haha. 

[jkelley9]

I play as a single 90% of the time, which is now around twice a week.

I used to get a little worked up when dealing with the situations that the op points out, but I've learned a few things to help me cope with this.

1) With the league person, that was obviously not your fault and she obviously handled it in a trashy way. But I can see where possibly they had a single wreck their whole day in the past and they are trying to protect the integrity of their group. Again, there's no reason for them to be a bit**. But that may be where that came from.

2) For the cheaper (and sometimes even more expensive) muni's, the pros/starters just don't give a crap. They'll tell you to tee off whenever, and it causes havoc. They need to do a better job at managing groups but seriously, most of the ones I play just don't care. Nowadays, I get permission to tee off and then I will wait a little and create my own gap/situation. So if for example a group flies off #18 because they started on #10 and jumps on #1 when the pro said I could tee off, I let them go ahead. I'm on an adjacent putting green usually anyways so they don't even know I'm going to tee off in a minute so I get to avoid any confrontation whatsoever. I just have to be patient. 

3) Know exactly when all leagues (during your standard playing times) start at any courses/times you play frequently. This keeps me much more out of trouble this way since I just avoid those times. 

4) When you run into slower groups, even slow 2-somes in a cart, so long as they're playing at a 2.5 hour pace (per nine) or faster I will not say a word or signal anything to ask them to play through. I bring a book, or I'll start playing a second ball and really working on my course management. Or one time I even brought a book. 

5) There's only 1 thing (I feel) in which a single walker has any rights on a course: slow play. When they play beyond a reasonable pace for a 4-some (be it a 4-some, 3-some, 2-some) then they need to freaking play faster. I'll then strategically place myself usually with a nice pitch approach on a green with an adjacent next tee box and I'll look their way to see if they'll say something back at me, if they don't I'll call to them and ask if I can play through (only if nobody has hit yet and nobody is teed up, I don't want to be a distraction). If they don't let me (which hasn't happened yet) I would probably just tell the pro shop after my round.

Now that I've been playing a lot more, I'm much more familiar with golfing etiquette. But I always take a step back and remember a time when I didn't know jack. So when you see those group of college kids spending 15 minutes on a green lining up every putt like they're on the tour... you just gotta laugh to yourself and understand that they don't know any better. They aren't doing it intentionally. Some groups just go out to play golf to fraternize, not so much play the game itself. As a single you just gotta accept that. Now if you have a tee time and are paired up with people then that is a whole other kettle of worms. There are added expectations. Even for a muni.

Edit: oh I forgot one: letting people play through you. You just gotta let them, in my opinion. Whether your pace is good or not, if they're faster than you then you just need to let them play through if the course is open. I had to let 3 speed-golfers play through the other day. It was crazy. Fun fact, it was always after my tee shot that I'd let them play through. Each time I was feeling all proud of my 250-270 yard tee shot and these guys whacked the ball a solid 30-40 yards in front of me. EACH OF THEM. I was like.... O_O lol

Edited August 1, 2016 by jkelley9