Teaching pros, what keeps your long time clients from making improvements?

[Valleygolfer]

I will start with an example: There is a guy I know that has been playing golf seriously almost as long as I have been taking it seriously. When I met him he had an abomination of a golf swing. He plays regularly and is trying to improve but still has an abomination of a golf swing 5 years later. He has made little or no headway with his golf game.

Do you have a steady client that works on their game with you and at the course regularly and doesn't get expected results? Is there a reason (athletic ability, lack of understanding, etc) or lack of follow through outside your parameters? Basically someone that maintains a high handicap for many years without much change.

 

[billchao]

Not a teaching pro, but I'm putting my money on poor practice habits.

[Valleygolfer]

1 minute ago, billchao said:

Not a teaching pro, but I'm putting my money on poor practice habits.

I thought that too but I do know people that put out a lot of effort to get better and say they practice quite a bit. I don't have any proof that they do though.

[billchao]

Just now, Valleygolfer said:

I thought that too but I do know people that put out a lot of effort to get better and say they practice quite a bit. I don't have any proof that they do though.

Poor practice habits doesn't mean they're not practicing, just that they're not practicing correctly.

Many people consider hitting a jumbo bucket of balls on the range everyday "practice" but if they're not doing specific and slow motions to change their mechanics, they're not going to change anything anything about their swing. If they do see an improvement in ballstriking, it's probably due to "grooving" their compensations from repetition rather than actually making a swing change, which works fine when their timing is good, but the old misses can creep back on a moment's notice.

[imsys0042]

I'm not a teaching pro either but I've heard too many people over the years say "what he told me doesn't work" and go back to their old ways.   A good teacher will find what is best for you.  But the student has to be willing to execute the change even if it's not comfortable in the short term. 

[JonMA1]

Some students take to proper practice like a duck to water. Some of us do not. To have an instructor who would rather take the chance of losing a student by being a hard ass (being direct) is preferable to one who just gives up and is happy collecting fees while occasionally telling a student "that was good shot" while he whacks range balls. I'm not after compliments or a friend if I'm paying to get better. 

I will never blame an instructor for my poor golf game, but we all know some instructors are better than others. Yes, it's absolutely up to me to learn how - and develop the discipline necessary - to practice better. But I wouldn't mind it if my instructor was a bit more like a drill sergeant when I started to go off track. 

[Piz]

Far too many people ignore the basics.  "Look man, I just want to hit the ball straight.  I don't want to get into all that technical stuff."  

[Valleygolfer]

20 minutes ago, imsys0042 said:

I'm not a teaching pro either but I've heard too many people over the years say "what he told me doesn't work" and go back to their old ways.   A good teacher will find what is best for you.  But the student has to be willing to execute the change even if it's not comfortable in the short term. 

I get the diet excuse part as well but there are people out there that have proper instruction and are putting out effort but still not improving.

[TN94z]

I'm not a teaching pro either, but I have a friend that is. I see him work with guys and then when he leaves, I watch them practice at the range. It seems that some will work on their assigned drills, but if they don't hit the ball good while doing the changes, they seem to go back to their old swing just to see the ball going as normal. I think many give up too quickly because they don't want to spend the time on the drills.They want immediate swing fixes.

[MrFlipper]

Not a pro, but I know lots of people with "abominations" for a swing. None of them go to a pro steadily, probably never had more than one lesson, if that. But they know more about the game than anyone else, they know exactly what they are doing wrong, and that one shot they hit just right shows that they know what they are talking about (sounds like a chapter in LSW haha).

I'd be curious if any of the pros on here have any steady students that really struggle. The only people I've known who see pros steadily are either steadily improving or trying to maintain a relatively high level of play. 

And for full disclosure, my swing has been described as a octopus falling out of a tree, I hope that is better than an "abomination".

 

[Valleygolfer]

2 minutes ago, MrFlipper said:

And for full disclosure, my swing has been described as a octopus falling out of a tree, I hope that is better than an "abomination".
 

The guy I referenced swing has a relatively normal back swing but his follow through looks like a runner crossing the finish line after a marathon.

[phillyk]

I've been working with a guy that plays up to 4 times a week year round.  I've only really started working with him this year, but it's been a slow process, because of all the bad habits he has built over the years.  He really casts out at the top of the swing.  The slow process is mainly trying to find what ever "feeling" works for him.  Is is the release before impact, the after impact follow through, something at the top.  I've given him multiple drills to develop a better path, which will help initially.  But, it's the swing thought that we have not found to keep it going.  He does practice on the range a little trying to develop a better path and release and his practice swing looks great, then his real swing goes back to the old swing.  The other side is his mental game. Because he plays so often, some days he's not really focused and thinking about something completely non-related, and his score suffers.  It's funny when I play with him, because then he's super focused and actually plays well.  Overall, he's definitely been playing better after working with me, but it's a process just like anything.

[DrvFrShow]

Not a teaching pro, definitely, but I can tell you one thing. I know how to practice. My problem is lack of practice.

[nevets88]

isn't this a little of a contradiction? A long time client wouldn't be one if the client didn't improve? Client would have switched teachers eventually. If someone stayed w/a pro for a long time, probably there was improvement and then segue into maintenance?

[Rainmaker]

I'm not a teaching pro but my teaching pro is . .A common theme in various stories he has told me is students who don't believe what he's telling them.  I don't know if these are long term students or not - but apparently it's pretty common that people take a lesson and then partly or fully disregard what they were taught because it doesn't *seem right* or doesn't jive with what they see on tv, magazines, youtube, etc . .or maybe just because it doesn't seem to be working right away . .

That seems crazy to me - if you don't believe him, find another teacher.  But apparently, listening to his stories, people like to come for lessons and debate him, lol. 

[Natural Patrick]

I have never taken a lesson from a pro. I have however taken advice from players who are way better than I will ever be. Almost always, anything that has improved my game. Has felt so wrong when I first tried it. Sticking with something that does not feel right, is not a easy thing to do. When you stick it out and keep practicing the drill and start to see the results. Then it suddenly, it all makes sense.

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

I thought that too but I do know people that put out a lot of effort to get better and say they practice quite a bit. I don't have any proof that they do though.

There are three reasons people don't get better:

• They screw up.
• The instructor screws up.
• The golfer doesn't have the ability.

The third almost never happens.

The second happens more often than it should.

The first happens all the time. Most golfers want quick fixes, even if they say otherwise.

3 hours ago, TN94z said:

I'm not a teaching pro either, but I have a friend that is. I see him work with guys and then when he leaves, I watch them practice at the range. It seems that some will work on their assigned drills, but if they don't hit the ball good while doing the changes, they seem to go back to their old swing just to see the ball going as normal. I think many give up too quickly because they don't want to spend the time on the drills.They want immediate swing fixes.

Yup.

1 hour ago, nevets88 said:

isn't this a little of a contradiction? A long time client wouldn't be one if the client didn't improve? Client would have switched teachers eventually. If someone stayed w/a pro for a long time, probably there was improvement and then segue into maintenance?

Some long-time clients might feel like they're maintaining their skills, or the instructor is a good guy that they enjoy working with, etc.

But I agree, many clients will stop working with someone if they're not getting better.

[nevets88]

I see this all the time. Guy takes a lesson. Goes on Internet and asks for advice on advice given by instructor. That's faith for you.