Am I being an A**Hole

[SG11118]

Probably don't have all the facts, but I voted you were probably wrong.  It seems these guys are learning the game and trying to get better and were still on a 4 hour pace which you stated is acceptable for both your course and your morning group. It also seems like they were keeping up with the group ahead of them.  The pace of play for a round on your course was 4 hours this morning, and you decided you wanted to play faster than that.  Did the other 4 guys in your group also play through the two groups?  Did your group putt everything out?  Generally, when a group behind me wants to pass me and race through the course, they are very generous with the gimmies leading to a much quicker pace of play than they should.  If they spent the time to put everything they would be doing a lot less waiting.

Try putting yourself in the two-somes shoes.  They are new to the course and playing at an acceptable pace.  If they let you through, it slows them down five minutes which puts them closer to having to let the next group through.  When they let the next group through, that slows them down another 5 minutes which puts them closer to having to let the next group through and so on.  Pretty soon their 4 hour round has turned into a 4 hour and 20 minute round, and they are under scrutiny from the club for having played too long a round.  Doesn't exactly make new / prospective members feel welcome.

At my course, most of the faster players would've picked an appropriate place to jump ahead of the two groups and either skip those holes or jump back later in the round to hit the missed holes.

[Strandly]

10 hours ago, kpaulhus said:

Was I wrong for pushing a group of not very good golfers?

Yeah, you were being a d-bag imo.  The foursome in front of the two-some was the problem and even then it probably wasn't even a problem unless that group was on pace to finish in >4 hours.

Playing through is a courtesy, not a rule.  Just because you want to get done quicker doesn't mean you can harass other groups.

[kpaulhus]

Ok I have read every response. I think I was both good and bad as @mchepp pointed out. 

I started out correctly by contacting the pro shop, but by the 8th hole I was getting annoyed and did the standing on the tee box with my hand on my hip move. I probably should not have asked them to push the 4some on the 9th tee. I was an ass there.

Thanks for helping me understand and somewhat vent. 

[David in FL]

8 hours ago, Strandly said:

Yeah, you were being a d-bag imo.  The foursome in front of the two-some was the problem and even then it probably wasn't even a problem unless that group was on pace to finish in >4 hours.

Playing through is a courtesy, not a rule.  Just because you want to get done quicker doesn't mean you can harass other groups.

And this, boys and girls, is a good example of why we continue to have pace of play issues....

[Patch]

I didn't vote. Not enough of an issue as explained.

I have shared my views on slower than faster play on this site many times before. No need to get into that it again. 

[newtogolf]

27 minutes ago, David in FL said:

And this, boys and girls, is a good example of why we continue to have pace of play issues....

There has to be room for a group to play through, wanting to go faster at the expense of everyone else isn't justification for playing through.  

[WUTiger]

kp,

Beginners/slow twosomes just happen sometimes. The starter probably assumed that a twosome could keep ahead of a threesome/foursome.

I think you did just fine. You alerted people who want to get into the golf scene as to what the expectations are, without yelling at them or being rude.

Between the assistant who's giving lessons and you, the two are getting socialized properly into golf. 

[jkelley9]

Reading your OP I can understand the frustration, but I also don't think it was right. I might have a little different perception that others may or may not have offered already:

Those guys, while they can't hit a 200 yard drive, 200 yards is certainly attainable for any gentleman in his 40's with a flush shot. I can't give you that one.

Also, yes I totally agree that the 5-6 practice strokes thing is a huge time waster, but they may have evaluated their own situation in regards to pace of play (the group in front of them) and figured if they were going to be waiting, why not take 5-6 practice swings? They're filling the gaps of time too, just as you may have. I for one, will hit a couple balls sometimes if I'm not keeping score. And sure, sometimes I'll take a few practice strokes even when it's not in my regular pace pre-shot routine. But larger time slots allow it so sometimes I will.

My last point is that while you have a group together, it's a Saturday morning and I don't think it's reasonable to expect to play any morning tee time faster than the stated pace of play. It's NICE when it happens, but I feel like you should never EXPECT it. 

Even the 4some in front of them wasn't terribly in the wrong if they were playing @ 2 hours per 9. So pushing them via the group behind them isn't warranted either. 

Sometimes we have to remember that just because it isn't our way of playing golf, doesn't mean everyone should play the same. Sometimes (especially on weekends) the hackers come out for a good time, to be out in the nice weather, and chat with buddies or whatever. So long as they keep or are reasonably close to the course's pace of play, you should accept that. 

All that said, I wouldn't call you an a-hole or anything. I get the frustration. 

[David in FL]

Just now, newtogolf said:

There has to be room for a group to play through, wanting to go faster at the expense of everyone else isn't justification for playing through.  

Yup.  But that wasn't what I responded to...

There are people (sadly, a lot of them) that play under the assumption that just because they're playing at whatever they consider to be a reasonable pace of play, that there's no need to let faster players through when there's room.  Those same players believe that no one has the "right" to expect others to allow them to play through when it's appropriate to do so....

[newtogolf]

8 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Yup.  But that wasn't what I responded to...

There are people (sadly, a lot of them) that play under the assumption that just because they're playing at whatever they consider to be a reasonable pace of play, that there's no need to let faster players through when there's room.  Those same players believe that no one has the "right" to expect others to allow them to play through when it's appropriate to do so....

I agree with this, I was responding to your bolding of " Playing through is a courtesy, not a rule"

[DaveP043]

10 hours ago, SG11118 said:

 It seems these guys are learning the game and trying to get better and were still on a 4 hour pace which you stated is acceptable for both your course and your morning group. It also seems like they were keeping up with the group ahead of them.  The pace of play for a round on your course was 4 hours this morning, and you decided you wanted to play faster than that.

This is what makes me think you were being a little pushy.  A group is keeping up with the group in front of them (not real close, but not losing ground) and the group ahead is playing within the normally acceptable pace.  I'm not sure if you could see beyond the foursome to see if THEY weren't keeping up.  I think its a little over the top  for you to think you should be able to play in 3 hours starting at 9 AM on a weekend morning, and to expect that other groups should get out of your way.  Now, if you were directly behind the foursome, and there was room in front of them, they should invite you through, as they did when you got behind them.  I don't think the twosome was really at fault, although more experienced players might have done things differently.

I do think you were right to call the pro shop and ask them to handle it.  I also think it would be a good move to seek out the tennis member (prospective golf member) and introduce yourself if you see him in the bar, maybe even apologize, and let him know he'd be welcome to play with you in the future.  Its tough to learn to play golf, its also tough learning how to handle these kinds of situations on the golf course.

[David in FL]

7 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I agree with this, I was responding to your bolding of " Playing through is a courtesy, not a rule"

Yup.  And I stand by that.  When there's room, you should let faster players through.  No matter how fast you think you're playing.  Unfortunately, too many people think that as long as they can barely catch a glimpse of the group, now a hole and a half ahead of them, there's "not room"...

To keep on topic, the OP is a good example of that.  As @Fourputt has said, your proper place on the golf course is directly behind the group in front of you, not directly in front of the group behind you.

[DaveP043]

15 minutes ago, jkelley9 said:

My last point is that while you have a group together, it's a Saturday morning and I don't think it's reasonable to expect to play any morning tee time faster than the stated pace of play. It's NICE when it happens, but I feel like you should never EXPECT it. 

I think its reasonable to expect a group to allow you to play through, if they're not keeping up with the group ahead, regardless of the "acceptable" pace of play.  If they ARE keeping up, its appropriate to accept that there's no room to play through.

[Groucho Valentine]

I dont think you were wrong to at least ask to play though. They were not keeping pace, after all.

[rehmwa]

16 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

If they were one shot (or less) behind the group ahead and keeping up with that pace... If I was in that twosome I'd be thinking I'm not holding you up as long as a close ranks on the 18th.  I'd also feel that I have no obligation to push the group ahead, that is not part of golf ettiquette nor is it my obligation.  That is what the Marshall is for.

 When you asked to play through I would have let you as I don't like to be pushed and would have been annoyed as I was keeping pace.  You shouldn't have called the Marshall on me you should have called the Marshall on the group ahead of me. 

(What I would have done as that twosome when you almost met us on the tee box at the 200 yard par three, I would have called the pro shop and said, "the foursome ahead is playing slow and we have two groups backed up on the tee box".)

this - pushing the 2 some to force them to push the 4 some is a dick move.  2 hours for 9 holes is also pretty standard.  I always look ahead of the group in front of me before crying foul.

[Jeremie Boop]

9 hours ago, Strandly said:

Yeah, you were being a d-bag imo.  The foursome in front of the two-some was the problem and even then it probably wasn't even a problem unless that group was on pace to finish in >4 hours.

Playing through is a courtesy, not a rule.  Just because you want to get done quicker doesn't mean you can harass other groups.

Most courses I play have a rule right on the card that says "allow faster groups to play through" somewhere in the list. Granted, that does require an opening to be possible, but just pointing out that it's not a courtesy, it is a rule. At least pretty much anywhere I've ever played.

[kpaulhus]

42 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I do think you were right to call the pro shop and ask them to handle it.  I also think it would be a good move to seek out the tennis member (prospective golf member) and introduce yourself if you see him in the bar, maybe even apologize, and let him know he'd be welcome to play with you in the future.  Its tough to learn to play golf, its also tough learning how to handle these kinds of situations on the golf course.

I thought of doing this yesterday afternoon. Ill talk to my assistant pro and see how he thinks I should handle it. I'm all for more members and golfers come out to play, so I don't want one bad (even if it wasn't really bad) experience to ruin this guy's perception of the golfers that do play often.

33 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

this - pushing the 2 some to force them to push the 4 some is a dick move.  2 hours for 9 holes is also pretty standard.  I always look ahead of the group in front of me before crying foul.

We did. The group ahead was a 4some playing the correct pace for a 4some. At the time I knew nothing about the 2some other than they were newer golfers. I suggested that a 2 hour pace for a 2some isn't necessarily appropriate and that if they let us through they wouldnt see us again. We were in the club house finishing lunch when they came up on 15 tee, so not saying they were off pace for 4 hours, but as a 2some I wouldve expected them to play faster. I didnt know the whole situation and the pro shop took care of it.

[rehmwa]

Quote

but as a 2some I wouldve expected them to play faster

I don't really think about how fast the group in front of me 'should' play - I'm only concerned that they are keeping up with the next group (2some, single, 4 some - doesn't matter).  It's an interesting take on it - but I don't think I'd want to do that, I don't want to play someone else's game and I'd like people to not try and play mine.

it worked out.  glad you got through and could play at a pace more in line.  I know slow pace can really affect my game.  I usually try to find a course (I look at the signup) and try to find more empty courses just so I can play at a crispy pace.  Else I have to find things to keep distracted between shots.  which stinks

blue skies - you seem to sincerely really want to figure this out and not just get internet validation - I think that's cool