2016 Distance Data from Game Golf (and "How Far do Ams Hit the Ball?")

[Kalnoky]

2 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

You don't have to be a bomber to score well if you are playing the right tees relative to your skill. But it requires some consistency to your inconsistency, your worst shots have to leave you in a spot that gives you a chance. 

One of the most reasonable comments I've ever read about golf. 

 

[Patch]

I read some where that based on all the age, and handicap group averages the overall averages are; driver 220ish, 7i 130ish, and pitching wedge 75ish. 

I don't know how accurate the article was, but those numbers sound reasonable based on what I have actually seen.

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Kalnoky said:

My first instructor liked to say, "contact, direction, and then distance" (learned in that order). 

I prefer backward. Distance first. Control it later.

[JonMA1]

I'm still holding out hope that through an improved swing, I will gain a few yards before my body breaks down. The aches and pains are starting as is the loss of strength. But I still believe better mechanics can offset aging to some degree. I'm 56 and had an unofficial 23.3 index in 2016.

Starting using GameGolf in 2016. The end of year distances were not that far off from what I'd considered my stock distances (roll) to be from the previous year.

Club - Assumed Distance (2015) - GG Distance (2016)

D-225-219

3w-205-199

5w-190-193

4i-170-162

5i-160-157

6i-150-162

7i-140-141

8i-130-134

9i-120-117

Before the season 2016 started, I also mapped my iron distances and shot dispersion:

The moral of the story is that because of this data, I know I'll never score low on a 6500 yard course – I just don't have the distance. I also have to think twice before trying to hit a tight green from over 150 yards because of the club required and what my shot zones are with my longer irons/woods.

While this isn't anything I didn't already suspect, the GPS data simply confirmed those suspicions.

This game is challenging enough for someone like me even when playing from the right tees.

[Marty2019]

Looking at those numbers, I feel a lot better about my game.  I'm average!  

 

[Papa Steve 55]

All I know is that when helping a guy look for his drive, I find it 50 yards behind where he is looking.

[dennyjones]

10 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

I'm still holding out hope that through an improved swing, I will gain a few yards before my body breaks down. The aches and pains are starting as is the loss of strength. But I still believe better mechanics can offset aging to some degree. I'm 56 and had an unofficial 23.3 index in 2016.

Starting using GameGolf in 2016. The end of year distances were not that far off from what I'd considered my stock distances (roll) to be from the previous year.

Club - Assumed Distance (2015) - GG Distance (2016)

D-225-219

3w-205-199

5w-190-193

4i-170-162

5i-160-157

6i-150-162

7i-140-141

8i-130-134

9i-120-117

Before the season 2016 started, I also mapped my iron distances and shot dispersion:

The moral of the story is that because of this data, I know I'll never score low on a 6500 yard course – I just don't have the distance. I also have to think twice before trying to hit a tight green from over 150 yards because of the club required and what my shot zones are with my longer irons/woods.

While this isn't anything I didn't already suspect, the GPS data simply confirmed those suspicions.

This game is challenging enough for someone like me even when playing from the right tees.

Looking at your GG distances, your 4i, 5i and 6i seem to have relatively the same distances.  How do you equate this?  Would this data be realistic to have the clubs loft adjusted to create a better gap?  

The reason I ask, I believe I sometimes have the same overlap with my clubs.   

[uitar9]

2 hours ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

All I know is that when helping a guy look for his drive, I find it 50 yards behind where he is looking.

I was golfing one day, hit a drive into the bush, thought it had gone about 300 yards, some guy helped me find it, 50 yards behind me. What are the odds. LOL

[Hacker James]

I would agree with the numbers also. I am currently a bit below the average . I hope to rectify that soon, but if not.....meh....."dance with the one you brung".

Edited January 14, 2017 by Hacker James

[Lihu]

On 1/7/2017 at 4:28 PM, natureboy said:

Yeah, my initial estimate was longer than I thought too and was going off more my average 'good hit' on the range. I didn't realize how much the mishits and lack of bounce/roll in rough take off till I measured a bunch on course. I carried plenty 250+ and hit some up around 280 total on a soft course - average was significantly less.

But my iron estimates from the range were pretty good relative to the course. Of course you don't play to your actual average iron shot (including bad mishits) but your typical 'expected' distance. I'll probably be hitting more irons off the tee till I get my new swing sorted out with the longer clubs.

I would now think I'd want to know three numbers for my driver the average 'good hit', the median, and the average minimum. Or maybe something like the 1 sigma spread around the mode, or just the shot zone spread / heat map to actually or mentally map around course landing zone obstacles.

I'm a bit surprised by this post, because from the many "How would you play this hole" threads you put up it sounded like you hit about average. Not picking on this post or anything, just pleasantly surprised.

 

On 1/13/2017 at 8:13 AM, GolfLug said:

I like the chart. Of all skills, distance is the hardest to improve..

The way I read it and use it is to tells myself that with my current distance the HCP upside is at least 5 shots!   

Those are going to be the hardest 5 shots to get.

 

23 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

So does this data (all data) prove that there is a direct correlation between distance and handicap? Or age and handicap? 

Can a fifty year-old golfer who can't carry 200 yards hope to shoot in the seventies?

Play shorter courses. There's no need to torture yourself on a 73/135 rated course hoping to shoot 70s.

 

23 hours ago, RandallT said:

We're golfers- hope is in our blood. The median player may not be a 70s shooter, but I'm sure there could be an outlier or two.

Regarding "proof," I think it's up to each to determine if we buy it. I'd say there's a correlation with the median values of those combinations (distance/age/handicap)- with data to disprove the rule, on occasion. While I love sifting through data looking for correlations myself, I'd never want to eliminate the possibility of there being cases that lie outside of the picture being told by some set of numbers.

Or just the desire to improve for improvement's sake. Not even necessarily score, but maybe just enjoys the way a nice swing feels?

 

23 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

The answers are Yes and Yes, I suspect.  This doesn't mean you can't get longer as you get older, especially if you learn to improve your swing mechanics.  It doesn't mean you can't shoot lower scores than your driver distance might statistically correspond to.

And yes again, as long as you're playing the correct tees.  These are statistics, not universal rules.  There are lots and lots of ways of shooting a specific score.  However, having less distance off the tee means a much smaller margin of error for the rest of the game, if you're going to shoot in the 70s.  

Agree, and I'd like to say that this is a really encouraging post for all golfers.

 

23 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

To be honest, Dave, I'm not thinking about the "average Joe" out there. I'm think more of us in here. We are willing to spend the time and effort to improve, but how much is realistic? We are willing to move up, while the average golfer who never practices, like the little guy hitting 150 from the back tee last week, isn't going to worry about it. We do.

So, am I, +60 and barely carrying 210 with my driver and 150 with a seven iron, ever get to +10? Seeing that data, I wonder.

As I get older, I think I need a greater margin of error. I'm comfortable with statistics. They tell me things I might not want to hear, but I don't blame the data. If the best I can do is 85, then that's life. 84 would be a good score and 87 not a disaster. I can live with it. Just nice to know what the upside is. 220 and plus+ 10 are the best I can do, so be it. That's my goal. That's par for me. That's what the data suggests.

The average person using GG is generally pretty serious about improving. The average golfer doesn't have any realistic idea how far they hit each club. In fact, I probably should start using mine again. . .

 

22 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

Exactly, Randall. Without this data, I'd be thinking that I can be a single digit. That might be possible, but the data says it's highly unrealistic. I don't try to hit my pair after the flop when I know it's 22:1 and the pot is laying me 5:1. Being frustrated because I can't break 80, ever, makes me pretty okay. The numbers don't lie. Liars who use numbers are liars, or in some cases, self-delusional.

I'm okay with the numbers. Reality is often disappointing.

Not always, most people just see where they are on the course and "assume" they hit a drive so far. Likewise, all other statistics elude them, but not necessarily because they are trying to lie or anything. They just don't know their actual statistics. . .

 

22 hours ago, Dave2512 said:

I averaged 230 ish (total) in 2016 so it can be done. I play from 6400-6700 yards sometimes longer depending on my group. A typical round for me is a worst drive of 200 and best of 280 or so with everything in between. I break 80 often, didn't play much in 2016 but my average score was 80.9. You don't have to be a bomber to score well if you are playing the right tees relative to your skill. But it requires some consistency to your inconsistency, your worst shots have to leave you in a spot that gives you a chance. At my home course I only hit driver on ten holes. The holes I don't are the holes I par most often, short par 4's. I know where I am most likely going to make a bogey or worse and I don't try to push it, I play smart.

Yeah, this really improves your score more than anything else.

 

13 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

I'm still holding out hope that through an improved swing, I will gain a few yards before my body breaks down. The aches and pains are starting as is the loss of strength. But I still believe better mechanics can offset aging to some degree. I'm 56 and had an unofficial 23.3 index in 2016.

Starting using GameGolf in 2016. The end of year distances were not that far off from what I'd considered my stock distances (roll) to be from the previous year.

Club - Assumed Distance (2015) - GG Distance (2016)

D-225-219

3w-205-199

5w-190-193

4i-170-162

5i-160-157

6i-150-162

7i-140-141

8i-130-134

9i-120-117

Before the season 2016 started, I also mapped my iron distances and shot dispersion:

The moral of the story is that because of this data, I know I'll never score low on a 6500 yard course – I just don't have the distance. I also have to think twice before trying to hit a tight green from over 150 yards because of the club required and what my shot zones are with my longer irons/woods.

While this isn't anything I didn't already suspect, the GPS data simply confirmed those suspicions.

This game is challenging enough for someone like me even when playing from the right tees.

It's challenging, but I don't think scoring low on a 6500 yard course is all that important anyway. Most tees we should be playing are 6000 yards, and pretty enjoyable from those tees.

Also, there are plenty of single digit players who hit about as far as you do. They're usually still playing from the correct fairways basically playing "smart" golf.

 

2 hours ago, dennyjones said:

Looking at your GG distances, your 4i, 5i and 6i seem to have relatively the same distances.  How do you equate this?  Would this data be realistic to have the clubs loft adjusted to create a better gap?  

The reason I ask, I believe I sometimes have the same overlap with my clubs.   

Longer clubs are just harder to hit.

[JonMA1]

2 hours ago, dennyjones said:

Looking at your GG distances, your 4i, 5i and 6i seem to have relatively the same distances.  How do you equate this?  Would this data be realistic to have the clubs loft adjusted to create a better gap?  

I think @Lihu is correct...

7 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Longer clubs are just harder to hit.

I also think the 6i average is either an anomaly or there are some misreads in my GG data. I look that over pretty carefully after each round however.

I will say that during the summer when my swing was a little better, I was averaging slightly longer than my assumed distances with my mid and long irons. So I think slipping back into some bad habits is the reason those clubs are all bunched together.

[Lihu]

I like this embedded in the main article  RELATED: Dustin Johnson -- How To Crush Your Drive "

Yeah, how to crush your drives by a 6'4" 200 pound pro golfer, like anyone else can do it too!

[jkelley9]

On 1/5/2017 at 11:02 AM, mcanadiens said:

Not that it really matters, but it's a bit heartening since my numbers are more or less in line with what they had there. I'm not that short. The people I play are just too damn long.

Lol this happens frequently for me too. I have 2 guys I play with in vendor tournaments a couple times a year and it's hilarious because I wouldn't consider myself a short hitter... but these guys, CONSISTENTLY, play a shot 3 clubs lower than me (these are captain's choice tournaments). Granted one is a nearly scratch golfer, but the other, while he's played for a long time, is probably in the same range as me (12-ish if I had to guess).

But when I play with other players, I feel like I hit it a mile!

The only reason I think it's weird is because when I play with those 2 guys, they're say things (in all serious) like "man, you may need to work on your swing or something, that's pretty short." We're talking 140y 7i for me versus a 140y PW for them! I remember one specific par 3 170 yards I grabbed a 4i and hit that sucker FLUSH and stuck it 10 ft pin high. The scratch golfer hit a 8i.... pin high into the water left. The other guy hit a 7i pin high to same spot (in the water). I'm on the tee box like 

And these guys don't look like they're even trying to hammer it. Easy breezy swing.

Golf is weird. And hard.

[shanksalot]

 A few years ago I played in a Monday (weekly) senior tournament. Age 55 and up. Some of the guys hit it under 200 yards with their driver and some in the 220 range. But we had two guys who played behind us and both were in their 70's and hit it 250-265. I know there are some who hit it over 250 consistently but am not sure of their age. The one thing I have seen is that the older guys hit the ball pretty straight and the younger guys hit it a bit more crooked. 

[Hacker James]

55 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I like this embedded in the main article  RELATED: Dustin Johnson -- How To Crush Your Drive "

Yeah, how to crush your drives by a 6'4" 200 pound pro golfer, like anyone else can do it too!

Ian Woosman

[1badbadger]

I have some data that might be helpful...

Bridgestone has an area of their website called The Boom Club, which can be accessed by anyone who has gone through a golf ball fitting with one of their techs. One of the features is it compares your results to an average Tour player's launch data, and it compares your results to the average of the other Boom Club members.  It breaks it down for clubhead speed, ball speed, launch angle, back spin and distance. 

If you've been through multiple fittings, the results shown on your page will be from the most recent one.  My numbers are skewed a bit because I was hitting my 3 wood, but the yellow bars represent several hundred thousand amateurs of various skill level and age.

 

[NJpatbee]

The range of the sampling seems to be too large if they are including men and women in the same averages (or medians).  I am a 65 year old 17 HCP male golfer and my average driving length might match up including my misses.  However, my median is closer to the 215-220 yard range.  The 75 yard pitching wedge also seems short since I get 90-100 and I am by no means a big hitter.  I do agree that a 250 yard carry is a poke that myself and most other golfers have never made.

[Lihu]

20 hours ago, 1badbadger said:

I have some data that might be helpful...

Bridgestone has an area of their website called The Boom Club, which can be accessed by anyone who has gone through a golf ball fitting with one of their techs. One of the features is it compares your results to an average Tour player's launch data, and it compares your results to the average of the other Boom Club members.  It breaks it down for clubhead speed, ball speed, launch angle, back spin and distance. 

If you've been through multiple fittings, the results shown on your page will be from the most recent one.  My numbers are skewed a bit because I was hitting my 3 wood, but the yellow bars represent several hundred thousand amateurs of various skill level and age.

 

I also did a Bridgestone fitting at a local golf store where they used the GC2 that was already there. Kind of curious why you used a 3W rather than a driver for the fitting? Do you not use your driver enough to justify the fitting, or did you just forget to bring your driver that day?

I did the fitting because they gave me a whole bunch of free balls.

 

18 hours ago, NJpatbee said:

The range of the sampling seems to be too large if they are including men and women in the same averages (or medians).  I am a 65 year old 17 HCP male golfer and my average driving length might match up including my misses.  However, my median is closer to the 215-220 yard range.  The 75 yard pitching wedge also seems short since I get 90-100 and I am by no means a big hitter.  I do agree that a 250 yard carry is a poke that myself and most other golfers have never made.

I was kind of wondering that as well, but I don't really know what other people are using on the course. It seems like most people are using their PW at 100 yards and many miss short for one reason or another. Usually it's a bladed shot or a complete duff. If you duff enough, I would think that at least some of them get added to their club distance statistics?

The 7i distance seems about right, though. At least, I notice that a lot of people tend to hit their 7i all over the map on the driving range for a possible average of 133? I have no idea what most people hit on the course for 133 yards?

 

Quote

At its core, the median driving distance is 219.55 yards. Other club distances of note: the median 3-wood goes 186.89 yards, 7-iron clocks in at 133.48 yards and pitching wedge at a 73.97 mark.

Could be just enough duffs to get averaged into their distance statistics? Most golfers don't hit that "clean".

 

Quote

For what it's worth, golfers find the fairway 46.46 percent of the time.

I noticed that many of my first cut or even rough shots were counted in GG as fairways hit. I'm guessing that the software favors hitting fairways more than off?