Punched greens, do you count them for handicap purposes?

[Valleygolfer]

We had our greens punched and without a good steady down pour they pretty much take forever to heal. Some areas roll well and others do not. Sometimes it is impossible to sink a putt, even at three foot. In contrast, I have had some great rounds somehow with sanded greens. Many people play the "two putt only" which is relatively fair, albeit not accurate in reality. Yesterday I had quite a few putts that zig zagged across the green or stalled out miles away from the hole. This situation leaves you with situations of chance rather than feats of skill. Should you bother inputting scores on these types of jeans or consider them even legit? I really don't know.

[David in FL]

Of course.

Honestly, although I'd rather play pristine greens, I don't know that recently punched greens really affect my final score that much.  

As for competitive play, everyone is playing under the same conditions.  Like playing in the wind, or rain, whoever adapts best will usually win.  I'd argue that playing "2-putt only" is inherently unfair because it penalizes the better putter.

Edited August 27, 2017 by David in FL

[billchao]

Count 'em. It's not like you play on punched greens 6 months out of the year or something, so it's a situation that only comes up once in a while like a bad weather round. It will average out in the end and if you play especially poorly, won't even be used to calculate your index anyway. 

[iacas]

Yes.

Most people shoot about the same.

[Patch]

I shoot about the same scores on punched greens. I call it 4WD golf. 

Now I don't know this for a fact, but it sometimes seems that, although the ball is bouncing around, it still seems to keep it's tract to the hole. It's kind of like one hole makes the ball go right, and the next one makes it go back to the left. 

[Valleygolfer]

19 hours ago, iacas said:

Yes.

Most people shoot about the same.

I searched back a few pages but didn't get to this post.

I played yesterday on our punched greens and found that my style of putting doesn't work at all on these. I made a change and started making putts. It still had some bad bounces but was less affected. I might have putted even better than normal. I don't know that better putters have an advantage but adaptive ones might.

[David in FL]

2 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

I searched back a few pages but didn't get to this post.

I played yesterday on our punched greens and found that my style of putting doesn't work at all on these. I made a change and started making putts. It still had some bad bounces but was less affected. I might have putted even better than normal. I don't know that better putters have an advantage but adaptive ones might.

I'm curious, what is your normal putting style that wasn't working for you, and how did you change it?

 

[Groucho Valentine]

Sure. If you don't stipulate to yourself that it is not a practice round before you play - it should count. The conditions are just the conditions. Is no different than going out and playing in like 30mph winds or something. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Groucho Valentine

[Valleygolfer]

1 hour ago, David in FL said:

I'm curious, what is your normal putting style that wasn't working for you, and how did you change it?

 

I noticed that the guy I play with who generally runs the ball past the hole was having less of an effect from the green whereas I am a "die it into the hole guy." My putts that slowly meander to the hole were getting more affected by the sand so I increased the speed to have it go a couple of feet past the hole and take the majority of break out due to the greens breaking considerably less because of the sand. This worked for me yesterday.

[mcanadiens]

On the lower-end courses that I generally play, I see some pretty wild differences on the impact punched greens can have. There are some courses that do a great job of it and remain reasonably playable and heal over quickly. Some make a total mess out of it and have greens offer three-jackers for a month or more. Then there are those places that never aerate at all and have green concrete putting surfaces.

A decent job shouldn't make that big a difference. If its a botched job that is easily recognized, I'd bag it.

   

 

 

[No Mulligans]

On 8/28/2017 at 6:42 AM, Groucho Valentine said:

Sure. If you don't stipulate to yourself that it is not a practice round before you play - it should count. The conditions are just the conditions. Is no different than going out and playing in like 30mph winds or something. 

Stipulate to yourself that it is a practice round... I like that idea.  And I get to hit some extra pitches and chips (given I keep pace).

[NJpatbee]

I didn't post the rounds for handicap purposes until it was pointed out to me on this site that it was just another "condition" to be dealt with, like the weather. 

[Groucho Valentine]

22 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

Stipulate to yourself that it is a practice round... I like that idea.  And I get to hit some extra pitches and chips (given I keep pace).

I do it all the time. Especially when i do 9 after work or something. 

[DaveP043]

On 8/28/2017 at 9:42 AM, Groucho Valentine said:

Sure. If you don't stipulate to yourself that it is not a practice round before you play - it should count. The conditions are just the conditions. Is no different than going out and playing in like 30mph winds or something. 

 

On 8/29/2017 at 4:47 PM, No Mulligans said:

Stipulate to yourself that it is a practice round... I like that idea.  And I get to hit some extra pitches and chips (given I keep pace).

Just to be clear, there's no provision in the Handicap Manual for a mental declaration of a practice round.  If you're legitimately practicing, hitting multiple shots, trying different clubs, you can't post because you're not playing in accordance with the rules.  If you're practicing alone, you don't post.  If you're playing with someone else, and trying to shoot the lowest score you can, you post the round.  If you're playing in the rain, or the wind, or on punched greens, or wet fairways, you post your score.

[Kalnoky]

Around here they do a second punch in September (April and September, I think). As @mcanadiens pointed out, some courses do a better job than others. The sand bothers me more than the holes. If I can avoid a freshly punched course I do, even at half price, I don't have the same enjoyment. But I do understand it's a necessary thing. 

[26point2]

Hit it closer to the hole...less punch holes to putt thru.

Edited August 31, 2017 by 26point2

[Fairway_CY]

Our greens were punched for a second time in late June because there was some stress on them.  The majority of the month of July, the greens were sandy and had holes everywhere.  They were awful to putt on and were just not coming back because of a lack of rain.  

Every round I played there that month was REALLY good for me, though.  Our greens are typically fast and are the grainiest greens I've ever putted on.  With the holes... the grain wasn't as much of a factor for some reason.  As a result... my scores were lower and I was entering them in the system... and my index dropped significantly.  

They're actually doing a 'mini tine' punch again this coming Tuesday and Wednesday to help prepare the greens for the fall and winter.  This will be the 4th time the greens have punched in 2017 at our club.  

I've always reported everything unless I'm playing alone or hitting multiple balls.  As others have said... it's no different than playing in a strong wind or something.

CY