Why do so many golfers think short game is holding them back?

[iacas]

1 hour ago, joro said:

Gary Player said your practice session would in thirds,  1/3 long game and 2//3s short game and Putting. Take it for what it is worth.

Fine advice if you're just warming up before a round. Horrible advice for practicing your overall game.

[joro]

Whatever

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, joro said:

Whatever

I’m a better instructor than Gary Player.

And I’m sorry but I guarantee Gary didn’t follow his own advice at all.

You get to have your own opinions. Absolutely. And Gary his. But so do I.

[phillyk]

38 minutes ago, joro said:

Whatever

This is really what bothers me most about some instructors.  No willingness to listen, think, and potentially evolve their views.  Our mission is to grow the game, the people who play it, and our selves.  How can you do any of those things if you will not attempt to look at data, to look at whats new and growing in the game?  @iacas has gone through great lengths to grow the game in data-driven manner.  You have your experience, which is great!  But, over the last 10-20 years or so, we have entered a phase in golf where data has proven opinionated experience wrong.  What you think you know, may not be true.  But, like you said, take it for its worth.

Edited November 12, 2017 by phillyk

[joro]

I see, again, whatever, this subject is getting raked over and over and over.   You are a great teacher.

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, joro said:

I see, again, whatever, this subject is getting raked over and over and over.   You are a great teacher.

Yeah. It’s the topic of this thread.

Many other topics here.

[joro]

So you are the owner of this site?

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, joro said:

So you are the owner of this site?

That's not really relevant to this topic.

What would be is to have numerous and specific examples of people who have actually improved their games significantly by working more on their short games than long games.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Lihu

[coachjimsc]

17 hours ago, iacas said:

  17 hours ago, David in FL said:

So low handicap players are just as likely to need as much work on their long game as high handicappers?

Huh...

 

17 hours ago, iacas said:

Yeah…

Absolutely! I spend the majority of my practice using 65/20/15. I may practice more on my putting from time to time because it is a glaring weakness compared to the rest of my game. 

[jsgolfer]

3 hours ago, joro said:

Every day I would see at the Range people go to the Range, grab their Driver and start swinging for the fence.    Then they would go to the Putting Green, slap a few quick Putts and off to the first tee.   Their game is shot before they tee off.

Gary Player said your practice session would in thirds,  1/3 long game and 2//3s short game and Putting.    Take it for what it is worth.

 

But that's not really a practice session.  If I go to the range before playing, it's just to warm up and see if there is a tendancy for my swing that day.   

And again, as has been said numerous times, people miss the green so due to their approach shots or bad drives, but think they should get up and down every time they are near the green, so their short games are what's lacking.  When really it's poor drives and approach shots.   If you hit more greens or NGIR's, your score will go lower, end of story.  Will be far better than getting up and down every once in a while, which is what even the best players do.  I have a pretty decent short game, @Golfingdad will attest to that, but l lose way more shots on bad drives and poor approach shots. No one is going to get up and down every time they miss a green.    

Now if chipping/pitching/putting is a glaring weakness then you should practice it, but even if it's OK, you're far better trying to improve the full swing.  No matter what Gary Player says. 

[JonMA1]

23 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

And again, as has been said numerous times, people miss the green so due to their approach shots or bad drives, but think they should get up and down every time they are near the green, so their short games are what's lacking.  

I agree with everything you've said except the expectation part. I don't play with others nearly as often you most of you do so maybe that part is also true.

When I hit a bad drive that requires a punch out, or a poor approach shot that requires a chip beyond my level, I'm hoping for a bogey. Only on very rare occasions am I lucky enough to par that hole. And because my entire game is poor, a double is far too often the result of a poor tee shot. There may be disappointment, but rarely surprise.

IMO, there are levels of competence relative to our HC or scoring level. To expect to be average at one and far above average at another seems unrealistic. In other words, as unrealistic as it would be to expect to average 12 GIR per round, it's more unrealistic for me to expect to make up for a 5 GIR average with a great short game.

[NM Golf]

Being a great player does not automatically make someone a student of the game. Gary Player’s job was to win golf tournaments not teach golf. Not to mention he is from the generation that preached short game. We are armed with more knowledge than they had back then. We know, as the data irrefutably shows, that short game is not the most important part of the game. 

Like all new ideas it takes some time to convince people of its validity. Unfortunately some people are extremely close minded. Change is hard. 

[jsgolfer]

30 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

I agree with everything you've said except the expectation part. I don't play with others nearly as often you most of you do so maybe that part is also true.

A lot, if not most, of the golfers I play with, always lament the time they don't get up and down, rather than thinking that their long game was bad.  I play with one guy who is a 1 handicap, and he practices his short game so much.  If he's practicing, he practices the short game (pitching chipping putting), almost 6-75% of his time.  I asked him one time, why he practiced that so much as he was so good at it. And he said because when he misses several greens, he wants to be able to get up and down or have a good chance to save par.  I said, wouldn't it be better if you just didn't miss so many greens?  And he looked at me like I had two heads and went back to chipping.

32 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

When I hit a bad drive that requires a punch out, or a poor approach shot that requires a chip beyond my level, I'm hoping for a bogey. Only on very rare occasions am I lucky enough to par that hole. And because my entire game is poor, a double is far too often the result of a poor tee shot. There may be disappointment, but rarely surprise.

Which is the point, that the full swing needs way more attention then the short game.  You want to stay out of punching out or worse, hitting it OB or in the water. The short game will just help you not shoot big scores, it will never get you to shoot low every time.  

39 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

IMO, there are levels of competence relative to our HC or scoring level. To expect to be average at one and far above average at another seems unrealistic. In other words, as unrealistic as it would be to expect to average 12 GIR per round, it's more unrealistic for me to expect to make up for a 5 GIR average with a great short game.

I agree, but if you could improve the full swing, then you don't have to have a good short game to bail you out all of the time.  Because there are times, when no matter how well you can chip and putt, it will not be great.  Just the law of averages, unfortunately.  Now if someone is incapable of hitting more greens or NGIR's, then an above average short game would be helpful.  

And still, no matter how well you chip, pitch and putt, no one can get up and down every time.  Even the pro's aren't anywhere near that.  Best scrambling percentage on the tour is 67% for getting up and down when missing the green in regulation.  

[Buckeyebowman]

7 hours ago, phillyk said:

Warming up for a round, yeah, I would probably do more short game, because I need to get accustomed to the greens.  Full swing is just getting it loose and seeing how the ball flies, not trying to do anything special or change anything.  Practicing is different.  But like we already said, if people understood how to practice effectively, they would see quicker improvement (including in the short game).

BINGO! I had a buddy attend a couple of Tour events, and he remarked that he didn't see any "alignment sticks" on the ground in the morning. I told him that that was because the players were "warming up" and not "practicing". They were just trying to figure out what sort of swing they had that day. If he wanted to see alignment sticks, he should go out after the rounds were over. He'd see plenty of them!

[JonMA1]

2 hours ago, jsgolfer said:

Which is the point, that the full swing needs way more attention then the short game.  You want to stay out of punching out or worse, hitting it OB or in the water. The short game will just help you not shoot big scores, it will never get you to shoot low every time. 

@jsgolfer - hopefully you realize my post was in 100% agreement with you on the importance of the full swing (I don't always communicate my thoughts very well). As mentioned earlier, I practice my full swing disproportionately higher than my short game. 

It's just that the expectation from others of getting up and down after a poor full swing or approach just seems odd. Other members have described the exact same thing in this topic so it must happen a lot. It's likely I play too many solo rounds and don't get the opportunities to see it.

[jsgolfer]

46 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

@jsgolfer - hopefully you realize my post was in 100% agreement with you on the importance of the full swing (I don't always communicate my thoughts very well). As mentioned earlier, I practice my full swing disproportionately higher than my short game. 

It's just that the expectation from others of getting up and down after a poor full swing or approach just seems odd. Other members have described the exact same thing in this topic so it must happen a lot. It's likely I play too many solo rounds and don't get the opportunities to see it.

I might have mis-read it.  

[billchao]

44 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

@jsgolfer - hopefully you realize my post was in 100% agreement with you on the importance of the full swing (I don't always communicate my thoughts very well). As mentioned earlier, I practice my full swing disproportionately higher than my short game. 

Yea, but as we have discussed in the past, putting is actually a glaring weakness for you. Your long game is probably on par with your level and you'd probably cut three or four strokes just from a little bit of good putting practice.

[Groucho Valentine]

On November 10, 2017 at 2:52 PM, gmc1950s said:

GV.... You are  +1 yet you only hit 9 greens on average per round? Doesn't that mean you're getting up and down most every time? I too hit 9 greens a round give or take, and have for many years if memory serves, but my scores are usually 80-82. Almost never getting it up and in.. I once hit 16 greens at Ft. Ord, Bayonet (I think) and shot 74. If you think about it for a 10 hdcp 74 is a good score, but not for hitting 16 greens. I'm guessing if I give you 16 greens you'd post what 68 or 69??? Straighten out my understanding if you will. Thanks

I suppose, on average. Ive hit less than 9 greens around and still shot par or better. GIR in itself doesn't really tell the hole story. My misses are consistant and i know how to recover from them. They are are also likely smaller than misses in your skill group, which makes up and downs more manageable.  I imagine your overestimating how many you hit on average. A lot of players think plus handicaps break par every time we play, we dont.. . I shoot under par less than 10 times per year. Which is something you never do. That also factors in to our handicap differences.