Playing the Ball Back in Your Stance When Chipping

[iacas]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155565805469227

If you're a friend of mine in the "Golf" group on The Facebook, you can see that post and follow the discussion there.

I posted something similar on Twitter earlier in the day:

Just 18 words. Very simple. Not considering the various things like COM, spine tilt, where your weight is, how far forward your hands are, the lie angle of the club, how far you've gripped down, the bounce you have, the vertical swing plane, your wedge's grind profile… yada yada.

Just a simple point that I think most people will get.

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And, because it's The Facebook, a few people argued.

So I filmed myself. The camera is a bit back, so in both shots the ball position appears to be further forward than it is, but I think this is illustrative:

A shallower hit, per the first graph, gives more margin for error, even when hitting a chip shot. It's not even, in this case, about using much bounce/glide. It's simply about controlling the height of the wedge to hit the ball on the same place. On the left, the height of the wedge is varying at a faster rate than on the right.

One pleasant fella had this to say (over two comments):

Quote

Man. All these pros on tv making money is doing it wrong. Even Ben Hogan did it in the back of the stance. Gosh. How could one believe crap… Please just write this to the pros on tour. They must be corrected because according to you guys like Rory, Jordan, Dustin and so forth are doing it wrong

To that, two things:

• PGA Tour pros are far better than most golfers at controlling the height of the clubhead.
• Most PGA Tour pros DO NOT, in fact, play the ball back in their stance for the majority of their shots. Most play it pretty much in the center.

The fine gentleman quoted there continued to post, saying that players hit it fat or thin because they "dip" and that if you're not teaching players to chip with the ball back in their stance, you're not teaching them "correctly," and that's the point at which most people stopped interacting with him.

@mvmac posted some photos, as did @kroetschypga, showing that a lot of PGA Tour players don't chip with the ball well back.

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So, I'm not saying that you shouldn't play the ball back, ever, with a wedge while trying to hit a chip shot. There are times for that.

But, if you're chipping from a tight lie, and you're not a PGA Tour pro, playing the ball closer to the center of your stance still has shaft lean, it still has a lower launching ball, and it offers added forgiveness over playing the ball well back in your stance.

It's just simple geometry. Use it to help you.

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Original Twitter and Facebook posts were a result of this conversation:

Thanks.

[dennyjones]

57 minutes ago, iacas said:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155565805469227

Link isn't available right now?

[nevets88]

This is a pitch, but shows that even pros, the best of pros, catch that leading edge fat.

 

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, dennyjones said:

Link isn't available right now?

It is if you’re my friend on FB in my “Golf” group.

[HJJ003]

Man I agree with this so much. I have seen my short game consistency and accuracy increase dramatically by properly learning how to pitch and chip the golf ball. I’m by no means Phil Mickelson, but I have seen my ability to control the landing area of my ball and the spin (on pitches) by playing the ball farther forward in my stance than I had previously. 

[Patch]

IDK, I will agree not to play the ball "too" far back in a stance, as long as too far back, is not at the right in step in a narrow stance. (RH golfer)

Just the "never say never" part of my personality coming out. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Patch

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Patch said:

Just the "never say never" part of my personality coming out. 

I didn't say that word.

[mvmac]

Amazing some of the weird responses the post received.

Here are the examples I posted.

This one of Noren is probably closer to a pitch but same idea.

And I'll add this one of Kuchar and Donald.

 

[onthehunt526]

I have a question, @iacas.  The tweet says do not play the ball back in your stance. My question is: Is this an approximation?  It seems like when I chip, the ball is a little back in my stance, but not as extreme as the picture.

[mvmac]

2 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

My question is: Is this an approximation?  It seems like when I chip, the ball is a little back in my stance, but not as extreme as the picture.

Play the ball closer to the right pic (and Luke Donald in my last post), more room for error.

Also this.

 

[iacas]

7 hours ago, mvmac said:

Play the ball closer to the right pic (and Luke Donald in my last post), more room for error.

Note that the camera is a little back of the ball, so the ball appears more forward in both of these positions.

[Buckeyebowman]

Tight lies are the worst, and I've finally figured out, after many years, to NOT play the ball back in my stance from there! I'll play off a narrow stance with the ball a bit forward and the clubface slightly open. This allows the sole of the club to "slide" along the grass rather than dig. If I don't make a pure pass at it, I still have the chance of a decent outcome.

As iacas said, there are times to play it back in your stance. This is from fluffier or heavier lies, where you need to "chop" down to get at the back of the ball. This is when there is too much grass for a more shallow clubhead approach. You couldn't get the clubhead to the ball. Both shots are fraught with danger, but what golf shots aren't?

[jshots]

I read this a couple of weeks ago and was thinking about while practicing and at least anecdotally this has never been the case for me. I find that for "chipping" playing the ball further back results in more consistent contact and I'm not sure your point of simple geometry is accurate here. Sure if you move your hands backward to achieve the rear ball position you will steepen the angle of attack, but if you achieve it with a more extreme shaft lean where your hands remain in a similar position then your angle of attack shouldn't change all that much? It could be that a life time of chipping that way is the reason I chip better that way, but my thinking is that with slow club head speed of a chip, bounce is not your friend as it is in a pitch and reducing bounce creates better contact.

What do you think?

Edited May 5, 2018 by jshots

[Patch]

42 minutes ago, jshots said:

I read this a couple of weeks ago and was thinking about while practicing and at least anecdotally this has never been the case for me. I find that for "chipping" playing the ball further back results in more consistent contact and I'm not sure your point of simple geometry is accurate here. Sure if you move your hands backward to achieve the rear ball position you will steepen the angle of attack, but if you achieve it with a more extreme shaft lean where your hands remain in a similar position then your angle of attack shouldn't change all that much? It could be that a life time of chipping that way is the reason I chip better that way, but my thinking is that with slow club head speed of a chip, bounce is not your friend as it is in a pitch and reducing bounce creates better contact.

What do you think?

I have this opinion that what ever consistantly works for the individual is an ok way to do things. Key words being "consistantly works".

I myself chip with the ball a little back of center, maybe a ball width, or two. It was how I was taught, and I never seen a reason to change.