Self-delusion, spelled G-O-L-F?

[Friz]

its all a matter of perspective.  i know i am a good enough golfer to hit just about any shot needed on a golf course from almost any situation.  However, my delusion would be thinking that I'm going to do it with one attempt every single time in a round.  I KNOW I'm going to mishit the occasional ball, or occasionally three putt from too close, or sometimes take multiple swings to get out of a bunker.  But at the same time, I'm also occasionally going to sink a long birdie putt, or chip in to save par, or something good.  I judge myself based on both

If you want an interesting experiment for a bogey golfer, in addition to keeping a normal score, keep a tally of how many "mistakes" you make each round, mistakes being however you define it in your game as long as its consistent.  Then, once you have a baseline for an acceptable number of mistakes in your round, judge yourself based on mistakes made in relation to your score.  You'll get a pretty good idea of how you played

[Zekez]

On 5/27/2018 at 8:58 AM, MarvChamp said:

Right...I have done this for a long time. Play the three with a goal in mind, then forget it until the tally. Playing from the correct tees while trying to play with newer physical limitations is an added benefit...I liked yesterday's approach shots.

BUT apropos to the question...Why is it that I MUST keep score? Because I think I'm better than I am, that I can have glory days again. It's all ego. Golf has taught me a lot about my pride and self-centeredness. Great topic! -Marv

When I play practice rounds I don't keep score.

[Blackjack Don]

On 5/29/2018 at 2:26 PM, Friz said:

If you want an interesting experiment for a bogey golfer, in addition to keeping a normal score, keep a tally of how many "mistakes" you make each round, mistakes being however you define it in your game as long as its consistent.  Then, once you have a baseline for an acceptable number of mistakes in your round, judge yourself based on mistakes made in relation to your score.  You'll get a pretty good idea of how you played

That's not a bad idea at all.

[Lihu]

The issue is most golfers make mistakes at random. The worse a player the more random the mistake and so many of them it’s hard to call them mistakes. Lack of enough skill might be more appropriate?

[lastings]

13 minutes ago, Lihu said:

The issue is most golfers make mistakes at random. The worse a player the more random the mistake and so many of them it’s hard to call them mistakes. Lack of enough skill might be more appropriate?

Disagree.  Mistakes are not random at all.  As a matter of fact, mistakes compound themselves.   Everyone has bad swings.  Bad golfers lack both the mental toughness to reset themselves and not carry that bad swing into the next swing, and also lack the knowledge and understanding of what caused that bad swing. 

[Shorty]

The "even a stopped clock tells the correct time twice a day" adage works here. The poor golfer's great shots are anomalies, not the way they should hit it all the time.  In effect, when they make great contact it is an error because it deviates from the norm.

The way I look at it these days is to think about how my 42 points or nett 66 compares to the +4 teenager 's average round - the one who would be upset at shooing my best score of the year.

People think that when they cheat and get 78 with gimmes and mulligans they are only a few shots away from being close to a pro, because they see that a pro had 75 the other day. Then they bring up nonsense like "Ian Poulter was a 4 when he turned pro" as if it's proof that they are probably good enough to turn pro (with more practice time) because they once had 79 (with 10 asterisks)  from the front tees which is close (in their mind) to playing to 4.

It's a stupid cycle and one best to avoid. There is every likelihood that if you play off 10 there are a thousand better players than you within a 20 mile radius.

BUT.... every round you hit a shot that Tiger would be thrilled with. Not a 300 yard stinger with a 2 iron, but a wedge that lips out or a holed bunker shot or a holed (but skulled) chip shot. Or maybe just an 8 iron that ends up three feet from the hole. It's easy to be deluded.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Shorty

[Blackjack Don]

5 hours ago, Lihu said:

Lack of enough skill might be more appropriate?

I'd suggest it's a big mistake we often make thinking we practice enough, or we can at all? It's a mistake to say I'll skip a day, or worse, this week. It's a very hard skill to learn. Most of us aren't much in the way of athletic. Another delusion? lol

[Blackjack Don]

4 hours ago, Shorty said:

because they once had 79 (with 10 asterisks)  from the front tees which is close (in their mind) to playing to 4... It's easy to be deluded.

My nominee for post of the year. You just summed up the average golfer out there. I'm sixty-three, and my goal is to shoot 85--counting every penalty--by the end of my third year upcoming. I'm in the nineties, now. It would be nuts for me to think of par as anything except one under given my age and ability. 

Totally delusional for me think I might break 80, but, as Toby Keith said, I might shoot my age if I live to 88.

 

[lastings]

8 hours ago, Shorty said:

The "even a stopped clock tells the correct time twice a day" adage works here. The poor golfer's great shots are anomalies, not the way they should hit it all the time.  In effect, when they make great contact it is an error because it deviates from the norm.

The way I look at it these days is to think about how my 42 points or nett 66 compares to the +4 teenager 's average round - the one who would be upset at shooing my best score of the year.

People think that when they cheat and get 78 with gimmes and mulligans they are only a few shots away from being close to a pro, because they see that a pro had 75 the other day. Then they bring up nonsense like "Ian Poulter was a 4 when he turned pro" as if it's proof that they are probably good enough to turn pro (with more practice time) because they once had 79 (with 10 asterisks)  from the front tees which is close (in their mind) to playing to 4.

It's a stupid cycle and one best to avoid. There is every likelihood that if you play off 10 there are a thousand better players than you within a 20 mile radius.

BUT.... every round you hit a shot that Tiger would be thrilled with. Not a 300 yard stinger with a 2 iron, but a wedge that lips out or a holed bunker shot or a holed (but skulled) chip shot. Or maybe just an 8 iron that ends up three feet from the hole. It's easy to be deluded.

While this is true, people like myself might be more delusional.  I’ve shot 80 a handful of times, no asterisks, and every time i do, I don’t think 75 is that far away.   Make a putt here, find a lost ball there, and 75 is on the board.   I tend to forget how many unlikely shots it took me to score what I did.  

[mcanadiens]

It is possible to groove a bad swing for awhile isn't it? Things click for a round, a week or maybe even a month, but it eventually falls apart. 

 

[Moxley]

Most of us do this to some extent. 

I think something that helps is to play proper practice rounds & social rounds properly.  Count every stroke, make every putt, and handle penalty situations properly (i.e stroke + distance for OOB/lost). If you don't do this because you need to play quickly, allow extra strokes for it, and then some more.  These are the things IMO that delude golfers into thinking they are better than they are, leading to disappointment on official rounds. 

[klineka]

On 5/27/2018 at 5:16 PM, Blackjack Don said:

How about this one? 

I was testing clubs and the guy at the big box store suggested a Taylormade M4. He said it had a concave face which guides the ball back to the center. Ugly club, in my opinion, kind of like a hybrid. I said, okay, that's the good part, what's the cost? He said there was no downside. Why aren't the pros using it? Tradition, he said. Nobody wants to change.

 

Pros do change their equipment, none of them are using the 2016 or 2017 M2/M3 models so there's obviously something they like enough about the 2018 M3/M4 models in order for all of the players to have them in their bags. The Taylormade players all switched to the TP5 or TP5x balls when they came out and a lot of them are using a version of the spider putter which is also new. So yes, pros do use the M4, and pros do change clubs and equipment, some guys on a yearly basis.

On 5/27/2018 at 8:59 PM, billchao said:

Pros don't play the M4 but they play the M3, which also has the Twist Face technology.

https://www.taylormadegolf.com/tourplayers.html

Pros do use the M4. According to that link, John Rahm uses the M4 driver and Jason Day and Justin Rose use the M4 fairway wood.

[DeadMan]

10 hours ago, Shorty said:

The "even a stopped clock tells the correct time twice a day" adage works here. The poor golfer's great shots are anomalies, not the way they should hit it all the time.  In effect, when they make great contact it is an error because it deviates from the norm.

The way I look at it these days is to think about how my 42 points or nett 66 compares to the +4 teenager 's average round - the one who would be upset at shooing my best score of the year.

People think that when they cheat and get 78 with gimmes and mulligans they are only a few shots away from being close to a pro, because they see that a pro had 75 the other day. Then they bring up nonsense like "Ian Poulter was a 4 when he turned pro" as if it's proof that they are probably good enough to turn pro (with more practice time) because they once had 79 (with 10 asterisks)  from the front tees which is close (in their mind) to playing to 4. 



It's a stupid cycle and one best to avoid. There is every likelihood that if you play off 10 there are a thousand better players than you within a 20 mile radius. 

BUT.... every round you hit a shot that Tiger would be thrilled with. Not a 300 yard stinger with a 2 iron, but a wedge that lips out or a holed bunker shot or a holed (but skulled) chip shot. Or maybe just an 8 iron that ends up three feet from the hole. It's easy to be deluded. 

This is probably the best post I've ever read on here. Absolutely nailed it.

[billchao]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

Pros do use the M4. According to that link, John Rahm uses the M4 driver and Jason Day and Justin Rose use the M4 fairway wood.

Right, I forgot Rahm uses the M4 driver.

Anyway my point remains: somebody doesn't know what they're talking about if they think the pros aren't using the Twist Face stuff (which isn't even new tech).

[Blackjack Don]

2 hours ago, Moxley said:

I think something that helps is to play proper practice rounds & social rounds properly.  Count every stroke, make every putt, and handle penalty situations properly (i.e stroke + distance for OOB/lost). If you don't do this because you need to play quickly, allow extra strokes for it, and then some more.  These are the things IMO that delude golfers into thinking they are better than they are, leading to disappointment on official rounds. 

Definitely worth repeating. I am finding myself agreeing with this more and more. My path started out far from the goal of counting every stroke, perhaps because I needed to think I was better than I was, or I would have quit. Sometimes delusion isn't a bad thing?

As someone with a deep interest in the mind, I find golf infinitely interesting and also satisfying. If the most important distance in golf is the four inches between our ears, then it's a good thing we seek refuge in delusion.

Hope this has been an interesting thread for everyone else. 

[cooke119]

I for one do not think I am better than I am, at least not anymore. I've come to realize that at times I should be playing tennis instead. I've had three back surgeries, I'm 66 not 35 anymore, and realized I am not going to get any better, (but I still try). I take the game very seriously but I'm out to have fun with my buddies. Since we don't hit that far anymore we play from the senior tees and I have purchased a set of hybrid irons (Clevelands) because I lost a lot of distance with "regular" irons. Bottomline, for myself I have taken the pressure off and I am enjoying the game just as much if not more. My league, (of older guys and gals), play a scramble each week and we have a lot of laughs, especially at the 19th. We put money on the rounds but it all goes to charity to help needy families in the area. I've learned to relax and enjoy the moments, yes I still go flag hunting over the water, but if I get wet so be it there is always the next hole.

[JonMA1]

On 5/26/2018 at 12:52 PM, Blackjack Don said:

Why, oh, why did I try to hit close to that flag over the the water? Why do I think I am better than I am??

Cut yourself some slack Don. How long have you been playing?

If you're still expecting a sudden appearance of skill to show up after several years of mediocrity, you may need to get in touch with reality. But for now, some of this is probably just starting to come into focus for you.

17 hours ago, Shorty said:

The "even a stopped clock tells the correct time twice a day" adage works here. The poor golfer's great shots are anomalies, not the way they should hit it all the time.  In effect, when they make great contact it is an error because it deviates from the norm.

I think your post is spot on with a lot of golfers @Shorty, but it doesn't need to be that way.

I suppose it depends on what one considers an "anomaly", or how a "poor" golfer is defined, or what a "great" shot is. But I think there are plenty of us high cappers who have a realistic grasp on how bad we are. I'm guessing that whatever skill I think of as my strongest is not as good as any single-digital player who thinks of that same skill as his worst.

I shoot an average of 97 on short, easy courses with an index of 22. I qualify as a "poor" golfer.  

"Great" to me is when I attempt to curve a 5w shot around a tree and not only succeed at that, but also get the ball to roll onto the green. Or a 30' putt that I have to hit up onto the fringe rolls in or stops close enough for a tap-in. I don't consider these anomalies - even if they are on the fringe of my ability. At the same time, I certainly don't expect that type of result on the next attempt, or the next, or the next....

I hit a lot of good, or at least, a lot of very decent shots in a typical round. Now, before anyone yells "DELUSIONAL!", let me explain.

First, it's relative. I'm not comparing my good shots to those of a PGA player or even a low single-digit player. I'm taking about a long or mid iron on the green, a pitch that stops within 3', or a 10' putt.

Second, a high 90's player averages somewhere around 1.5 strokes over par per hole. Because most of us don't have the ability to recover from poor shots or poor holes, an over-simplified way to describe it is that >80% of our shots are successful. These are not great shots, but are decent to good shots. For me, that's defined as a result that keeps scoring par on a hole possible. As soon as I slice a drive behind a tree, or duff a layup, or miss a green by a substantial margin, or blade a chip, or hit a lag putt that leaves me with a second lag putt, making par on that hole becomes almost impossible. Any combination of those or an out-of-bounds shot and the best I can hope for is double. Because 20% of my shots are somewhere between poor and horrid, it's hard to get through a hole without making at least one mistake - hence the high scores. But it's not like we aren't successful on most attempts with a high percentage of those being respectable shots.

My point is that as a high capper, it's not delusional to go into a typical shot feeling like you have a better than 80% chance of being successful.

As far as hitting an approach shot that lands close to the flag, if the flag location is middle of the green, it was a great shot. If not, it was a happy accident. 

Sorry... that was a bit of a ramble.

@Blackjack Don...

1. In my best rounds ever, I wasn't in any kind of zone where I was hitting unbelievable shots to within a foot of the flag. I simply didn't make very many bad shots.

2. In my worst rounds, I'm making poor contact, spraying the ball left and right, 3-putting, hitting balls into the water or woods....

Neither of those rounds represent my game and that's what I need to remember. Our games are what they are -  north of 20. Changing that ain't gonna happen overnight. Try to enjoy the journey just a little bit. 

Disclosure... I'm a bit of a hypocrite because I get frustrated very easily. If given the choice between getting a lot better and learning how to enjoy the game I have, I'd take the second option in a heartbeat. Sadly, both seem equally impossible at times.

[Blackjack Don]

36 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

Try to enjoy the journey just a little bit. 

Jon, the journey is something I've dedicated my life to for the past decade. These posts I make are me reflecting all of us. My purpose is to get people to think. At best, think and change, but I'll settle for think and consider. My path has made golf one of the absolute joys of my life. 

I've never met a person who says they know it all, but I've met lots of people who act as if they know enough. For me, learning is living. Golf is a superb way of learning a lot about me. Good post.