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When does a fade/draw turn into a slice/hook?

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35 minutes ago, billchao said:

So what do you call a fade that misses left or a draw that misses right?

 

Both horrendously misaligned setups if you're talking about a right handed player.

Edited by Shorty

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7 hours ago, Shorty said:

Both horrendously misaligned setups if you're talking about a right handed player.

Yes, for the sake of simplicity I'm only talking about a right-handed golfer.

If a player's stock shot is a 10 yard draw to his target and he hits a 5 yard draw, he messed up his alignment horrendously? I would disagree. There are small variations from swing to swing that will affect the outcome. This kind of thing will happen if the player typically misses slightly towards the toe and accounts for it by aiming farther right, but happens to catch it out of the sweetspot.


My point is, using a player's intended target to determine the difference between a draw or a hook (or fade vs slice) is flawed. 

Based on the definition @arturo28mx gave, a player who sets up for a 5 yard draw that ends up hitting a 7 yard draw "hooked" it. That doesn't make sense to me. Maybe the player hit his 5 yard draw and missed it left of his intended target because he aimed more left than he thought he did, so instead of starting his ball to the right and drawing it to his target, he starts the ball at the target and it falls left of his target. That shouldn't be considered a hook, either.

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On 6/15/2018 at 10:24 PM, Shorty said:

A person who asks when a fade becomes a slice and a draw becomes a hook is a person who wants to think their slices are fades and their hooks are draws.

If you can hit  a fade or a draw you sure as hell know when they're hooks and slices :-)

That is a huge insult to Bubba Watson. He moves it both ways at will. He is hardly "managing his game" when he is on form.

Hell, I thought it was a compliment! All depends on your point of view I guess.

Like Bubba's shot from the pine straw to win the Masters. I was actually at my Mom's house paying her a visit since the Masters is right around her birthday. We were watching, and when Bubba hit that shot I just erupted! "Jesus H! What a shot!!" My Mom stared at me like I'd lost my mind. I told her that she didn't understand just how hard a shot that was to hit! 

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I think when you need to aim off your target line to get it on target.   If you're aligned down the middle and you can push it to the right and have it draw back to the middle = Draw.   but, if your curve is so severe enough that you need to align yourself off you your target = hook.   

not to say that players don't intentionally play hook/slice.   I just think alignment is the difference between the two.   if that makes sense? 

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I am comfortably in the fairway if I hit my normal fade and I am hitting 3 on the tee if I sliced my first drive. I line up on the right side of the tee as far as allowed and do not aim left but align myself to where I want the ball to end up.

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17 hours ago, lastings said:

I think when you need to aim off your target line to get it on target.   If you're aligned down the middle and you can push it to the right and have it draw back to the middle = Draw.   but, if your curve is so severe enough that you need to align yourself off you your target = hook.   

not to say that players don't intentionally play hook/slice.   I just think alignment is the difference between the two.   if that makes sense? 

I always line up square to my starting line (not the final target).  Plan is always face square at impact.  I induce draw/fade solely with path and try to eliminate the other variable.  So I don't think I can use your definition.  Face drills for me is to develop control in order to return the face to square.  Path is easier for me to induce.

For me - YMMV

Fade/Draw - smaller curves, mostly on purpose. I know it when I see it.  I expect it before I see it.

Good Hook/Slice - big curve, definitely only on purpose.  fun stuff

traditional Hook /Slice - not intentional, big curves, cursing.  I know it after it happens.

Edited by rehmwa

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On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 12:38 PM, mcanadiens said:

When you miss whatever you were aiming at.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!!  I've also heard it said that a fade and draw are intended flight paths and the slice and hook are not.

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What do you call a fade that misses left or a draw that misses right Answer: One horrible looking next shot and a lot of superlatives to follow. The answer to the question  is its a slice when you are so far to the right you a playing a different hole , the same for a hook only left.

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On 6/18/2018 at 5:29 PM, lastings said:

I think when you need to aim off your target line to get it on target.   If you're aligned down the middle and you can push it to the right and have it draw back to the middle = Draw.   but, if your curve is so severe enough that you need to align yourself off you your target = hook.

That just makes it a push-draw. This guy named Snead did pretty well for himself back in the day playing a slight pull-draw and lining up to the right of his intended target.

Then there was this Nicklaus guy who aimed left to hit a fade right. Pretty sure he wrote in his book if he ever hit it straight (on his target line), he missed it.

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13 hours ago, billchao said:

That just makes it a push-draw. This guy named Snead did pretty well for himself back in the day playing a slight pull-draw and lining up to the right of his intended target.

Then there was this Nicklaus guy who aimed left to hit a fade right. Pretty sure he wrote in his book if he ever hit it straight (on his target line), he missed it.

But they had the courage to align their body to start the ball over the hazard and curve it back. I still can't seem to get myself to do that! :-P

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I think it has to do with how hard the ball curves. For example - if you're behind a tree - you have to hook it around to get it on the green. I'm not sure where the line is, but I'm not sure if target is the right way to define it. I do like the idea of a 'high gentle fade out of bounds'.

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51 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

But they had the courage to align their body to start the ball over the hazard and curve it back. I still can't seem to get myself to do that! :-P

That comes from really owning their ballflight - they know the hazard isn't in play. It's like seeing a short fairway bunker off the tee: if you know you're going to carry it barring an egregious mishit, you don't think much about it.

If you and I had that kind of clubface control, we'd line up at hazards, too.

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