Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
IGNORED

Incorrect Course and Slope Rating on Scorecard


Note: This thread is 2696 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted

This year especially I have noticed that at a few of the courses I have played that the Course and Slope ratings listed on the scorecard didn’t match what I looked up on ncrdb.usga.org. In fact 2 of the last 5 courses I have played at the wrong information listed (and a few others this year) on their scorecard, and only one course I play has updated their scorecards since I have been playing it with any updated information of course and slope rating. 

Is this as common as it think, or do most of the courses you play list ratings that match the database? Do you even double check database prior to posting? If you have a GHIN does it automatically pull from the database? I use DiabloGolf as my HI tracker, and have had to double check the database with every new course I play to make sure I got the ratings correct. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I believe courses are supposed to be re-rated at least every 10 years or if significant changes have been made to the course. Maybe it’s due to one being behind the other as far as being updated? I imagine ‘popular’ courses are better regulated to keep the database/score card in sync. Just a guess.

  • Informative 1

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Economic pressure on many clubs has dictated they don't spend on redoing score cards if the raters have made changes to their rating. That which is in the GHIN database is correct. The only time I input manually is when I play a course not in the database. Like international courses.


  • Moderator
Posted

Courses have to get rated at every 10 years or 5 for newer courses, so it's likely the course had its rating updated but not their scorecards.

Ghin automatically uses the updated ratings.

One of the courses I play at got updated last year. I play from the same set of tees but they have different ratings from last year and this year on my ghin account. 

  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Informative 1

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Posted (edited)

My course is getting re-rated Thursday but we have 2 boxes worth of scorecards left.  I'm not sure if our rating will change or when they take effect if they do change.  But we won't order another batch of scorecards until closer to the end of the year.  I assume most courses will react the same.  They will make sure they run out of the old one before ordering new cards.

 

I'll add that we order scorecards every year.  Making changes to the scorecard costs close to nothing so long as you are ordering a normal size batch.

Edited by phillyk
  • Like 1
  • Thumbs Up 1

Philip Kohnken, PGA
Director of Instruction, Lake Padden GC, Bellingham, WA

Srixon/Cleveland Club Fitter; PGA Modern Coach; Certified in Dr Kwon’s Golf Biomechanics Levels 1 & 2; Certified in SAM Putting; Certified in TPI
 
Team :srixon:!

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Thanks for the feedback guys. I figured it may have something to do with re-rating, but was unsure. I wouldn’t think economics would play too much into it considering it would only be a cost incurred every 5 or 10 years, but maybe so. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
35 minutes ago, phillyk said:

My course is getting re-rated Thursday but we have 2 boxes worth of scorecards left.  I'm not sure if our rating will change or when they take effect if they do change.  But we won't order another batch of scorecards until closer to the end of the year.  I assume most courses will react the same.  They will make sure they run out of the old one before ordering new cards

My course did similar;  we didn't get re-rated just yet, but rather re-evaluated which handicap numbers are on which holes.  I think half or so changed.  To make matters worse, someone found a box of older scorecards they're now using.  So there are now three sets of scorecards in circulation.  

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Posted
1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

I believe courses are supposed to be re-rated at least every 10 years or if significant changes have been made to the course. Maybe it’s due to one being behind the other as far as being updated? I imagine ‘popular’ courses are better regulated to keep the database/score card in sync. Just a guess.

If a course is not re-rated after 10 years, they actually get removed from ncrdb.usga.org as their rating is no longer valid.

  • Informative 1

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I played a course the other day that caught me by surprise.  The score card didn't match the tee boxes but I looked at the usga site and they listed their tee boxes as 1, 2, and 3.   The tee boxes were identified as 1, 2, and 3.  I thought that was interesting.   

From the land of perpetual cloudiness.   I'm Denny

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

While out of town a couple of years ago, I played a course that had slope/rating info that was different from the usga database.  I emailed the course pro, and he told me that the info on the card was correct (but didn't say why the database had different info).

I emailed the usga, who forwarded my question to the state golf association.  They stated that the database was correct, and not the scorecard.  When I tried to followup with them as to why it differed, I got a reply that what is on the scorecards doesn't matter and that they don't even recommend putting ratings on the scorecard.  I didn't pursue it further.

Craig
What's in the :ogio: Silencer bag (on the :clicgear: cart)
Driver: :callaway: Razr Fit 10.5°  
5 Wood: :tmade: Burner  
Hybrid: :cobra: Baffler DWS 20°
Irons: :ping: G400 
Wedge: :ping: Glide 2.0 54° ES grind 
Putter: :heavyputter:  midweight CX2
:aimpoint:,  :bushnell: Tour V4

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Posted

The database is the definitive source.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
1 hour ago, Missouri Swede said:

I got a reply that what is on the scorecards doesn't matter and that they don't even recommend putting ratings on the scorecard.  I didn't pursue it further.

Why don't they recommend putting ratings on the scorecard?  At the very least we want the slope rating so we can figure out who gets how many strokes when we play Captain and Crew or whatever we're playing that day.

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
2 hours ago, Shindig said:

Why don't they recommend putting ratings on the scorecard?  At the very least we want the slope rating so we can figure out who gets how many strokes when we play Captain and Crew or whatever we're playing that day.

They didn’t say. I find it useful as one way of determining which tees to play at a course I’m not familiar with. But I usually look that up ahead anyway (or could look up on my phone), so having it on the card is probably not necessary. 

Craig
What's in the :ogio: Silencer bag (on the :clicgear: cart)
Driver: :callaway: Razr Fit 10.5°  
5 Wood: :tmade: Burner  
Hybrid: :cobra: Baffler DWS 20°
Irons: :ping: G400 
Wedge: :ping: Glide 2.0 54° ES grind 
Putter: :heavyputter:  midweight CX2
:aimpoint:,  :bushnell: Tour V4

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Posted
10 hours ago, Shindig said:

Why don't they recommend putting ratings on the scorecard?  At the very least we want the slope rating so we can figure out who gets how many strokes when we play Captain and Crew or whatever we're playing that day.

I'm sure that the USGA and the state association understand that many courses aren't going to throw away perfectly usable scorecards simply because the course has been re-rated.  They would rather not have wrong information printed on your scorecard.  The ratings are required to be posted prominently in the club, along with the table showing course handicap as a function of the Slope Rating, you can determine your course handicaps when you're in the pro shop.

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
11 hours ago, Shindig said:

Why don't they recommend putting ratings on the scorecard?  At the very least we want the slope rating so we can figure out who gets how many strokes when we play Captain and Crew or whatever we're playing that day.

The course buys 10,000 scorecards. In two years, the course gets re-rated. Do you think they go through those 10,000 scorecards? Do they just toss them out? They use them, even though they have the wrong information. There is a course near me that has recently did construction. Adding a par 3, and turning two par 4's into a par 5. The scorecard still shows the old course layout.

35 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The ratings are required to be posted prominently in the club, along with the table showing course handicap as a function of the Slope Rating, you can determine your course handicaps when you're in the pro shop.

Good suggestion.

 

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
On 8/5/2018 at 11:41 PM, Missouri Swede said:

They didn’t say. I find it useful as one way of determining which tees to play at a course I’m not familiar with. But I usually look that up ahead anyway (or could look up on my phone), so having it on the card is probably not necessary. 

I usually go by total yards from the tees first, then factor in course rating and slope rating.

Christian

:tmade::titleist:  :leupold:  :aimpoint: :gamegolf:

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Doesn't really matter because the total yardage that scorecard says seldom matches what the real distance is.Usually they inflate they're yardage on card.


Note: This thread is 2696 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Day 1: 2025.12.26 Worked on LH position on grip, trying to keep fingers closer to perpendicular to the club. Feels awkward but change is meant to.
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.