Putting with the Flagstick In? - New 2019 Rules

[Piz]

Leaving the flag stick in is an advantage...period.  To maintain otherwise is delusional.

[Vinsk]

On 12/24/2018 at 12:15 AM, Piz said:

Leaving the flag stick in is an advantage...period.  To maintain otherwise is delusional.

“No. Never,” Reed said. “I don't know how many times I've putted on the putting green and I have the flag in and it's like there's a shield around the hole, it never goes in.”

Classic type of thinking here. Even if he was presented with solid data he’d probably refuse to change his mind.

[klineka]

 

[iacas]

17 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

“No. Never,” Reed said. “I don't know how many times I've putted on the putting green and I have the flag in and it's like there's a shield around the hole, it never goes in.”

This is the fear - that so many people will (stupidly) take it out, that the USGA/R&A don't see fit to withdraw this change relatively quickly.

[DeadMan]

Dave Pelz says it's better to leave the flagstick in, too:

Dave Pelz: The science proves you should leave the flagstick in when you putt - Golf

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Dave Pelz looks at the sceince and says you'd be a fool not to putt with the flagstick in, following the USGA's rule change for 2019.

 

[Double Mocha Man]

The elephant in the grill room is this:  With the flag in the hole it is difficult to retrieve the ball.  Instead of a "whole hand" effort it requires an effort of delicately maneuvering two fingers to get your Titleist out of the hole.

[klineka]

16 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

The elephant in the grill room is this:  With the flag in the hole it is difficult to retrieve the ball.  Instead of a "whole hand" effort it requires an effort of delicately maneuvering two fingers to get your Titleist out of the hole.

So what? That isnt going to add any additional time to the round, and if having to pull the ball out delicately with two fingers means there's a chance I will make more putts, then I'm all for it.

[iacas]

 

[gbogey]

I know what the science says but on short putts, let's say under 5 or 7 feet, I find it very distracting to have the flag in so in my case it likely comes out.  That, and the fact that my current home course regularly has the most crooked flags I've ever seen - a friend pointed in out to me the day before the rule became final.  It's weird - never seen it at any other course.

Agree that this is the worst rule change and I half expect the USGA/R&A to reverse course mid-year.

[phillyk]

24 minutes ago, gbogey said:

I know what the science says but on short putts, let's say under 5 or 7 feet, I find it very distracting to have the flag in so in my case it likely comes out.  That, and the fact that my current home course regularly has the most crooked flags I've ever seen - a friend pointed in out to me the day before the rule became final.  It's weird - never seen it at any other course.

Agree that this is the worst rule change and I half expect the USGA/R&A to reverse course mid-year.

I found it distracting at first but after playing with it for a bit, I feel like I can be slightly more aggressive with the big knee breakers because there is a backstop.  If anything, it is just giving me a bit more confidence.

[Double Mocha Man]

56 minutes ago, klineka said:

So what? That isnt going to add any additional time to the round, and if having to pull the ball out delicately with two fingers means there's a chance I will make more putts, then I'm all for it.

Hey, I'm with you Klineka.  I have played practice rounds for years where I never remove the flagstick... retrieving the ball is difficult.  But I will do what gets me the best score.  Though I may want to develop the technique for extracting the pin from the hole in a quick upward motion (keep your elbow in) to get my holed putt to pop out.

[JetFan1983]

Love this change. One, it makes it easier for me to hole any putt. Two, it’s an easy opportunity for me to gain an edge against everyone else since most people will continue to pull it out.

I was an avid basketball player growing up too and always used the glass on layups and most mid range jumpers. This fits right in with my style of play. 

But as an amateur player, I’m looking for any possible way I can lower my scores. This is a layup change for me, one that most people will erroneously not follow. I do understand how people are against this change to begin with, and I agree, particularly what @iacas has been saying, but as just one random amateur floating along with the current, I’m loving it. And if they eventually change it back, it was fun while it lasted 😀

Edited January 3, 2019 by JetFan1983

[Double Mocha Man]

Okay, what is the consensus on this? I'm saying leaving the flagstick in provides you with 1/3 of a stroke per round.

[klineka]

1 minute ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Okay, what is the consensus on this? I'm saying leaving the flagstick in provides you with 1/3 of a stroke per round.

I think it will vary for each person based on how good/bad their speed control is

[iacas]

1 hour ago, gbogey said:

I know what the science says but on short putts, let's say under 5 or 7 feet, I find it very distracting to have the flag in so in my case it likely comes out.  That, and the fact that my current home course regularly has the most crooked flags I've ever seen - a friend pointed in out to me the day before the rule became final.  It's weird - never seen it at any other course.

Read up here:

Putting with the Flagstick In | Lowest Score Wins .com

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Dave Pelz published an article today in which he says this: The test results were conclusive: You will hole a higher percentage of putts when you leave the flagstick in. The hits just keep on comin…

For short putts, take it out. No real advantage/disadvantage if your speed control is good. From 5-7' it should be.

But there are times to still leave it in, like @phillyk said. Plus I've had some really slick downhill 7' putts.

25 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Okay, what is the consensus on this? I'm saying leaving the flagstick in provides you with 1/3 of a stroke per round.

Depends on the player.

[DeadMan]

Woah. Golf Channel just had a segment saying that it is an advantage to leave the flagstick in. I'm shocked, honestly. They realized after one round that it's an advantage! I figured it would take a while. I wonder how long it will take to translate to the players. 

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Woah. Golf Channel just had a segment saying that it is an advantage to leave the flagstick in. I'm shocked, honestly. They realized after one round that it's an advantage! I figured it would take a while. I wonder how long it will take to translate to the players. 

Rewind and record that segment. Or tell me what the time stamp in the tournament was, as I recorded this round.

[Double Mocha Man]

22 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Woah. Golf Channel just had a segment saying that it is an advantage to leave the flagstick in. I'm shocked, honestly. They realized after one round that it's an advantage! I figured it would take a while. I wonder how long it will take to translate to the players. 

Here's the thing:  Even Bryson DeChambeau, a huge proponent of leaving the flag in, took the flag out at times.  A good wind was blowing and the sound of the flapping flag was a distraction.  Something we didn't even think about in our pre-rule discussions.  Also, because of the wind, there are times when the flagstick can lean toward the guy putting, in effect making a backboard that might kick out an otherwise perfect putt.