Is This a Hole in One?

[RustUK]

I think I got a hole in one yesterday.  Can anyone please confirm that this does count as one?

[woodzie264]

I’m not a rules expert, but I believe the ball has to rest in the bottom of the cup to constitute it being holed. Having said that, I’d let you count that and take a drink off ya at the clubhouse ☺️

[billchao]

1 hour ago, RustUK said:

I think I got a hole in one yesterday.  Can anyone please confirm that this does count as one?

Doesn't look like it to me. There has to be some part of the ball in the hole below the putting surface and that ball looks like it's entirely above it. If the ball moves when you pull the flagstick you have to replace it.

[DaveP043]

34 minutes ago, billchao said:

Doesn't look like it to me. There has to be some part of the ball in the hole below the putting surface and that ball looks like it's entirely above it. If the ball moves when you pull the flagstick you have to replace it.

I agree, its hard to say for sure whether any part of the ball is below the level of the surface.  On the other hand, if the ball is leaning against the flag, that means its center of gravity is over the hole instead of over the surface.  And if you draw that up, with the lowest point of the ball (directly under the CG) within the circumference of the cup, at least a tiny bit of the ball has to be below the surface.  That photo makes it look really close.

[RustUK]

Thanks for the replies so far.  It was quite a windy day and the flag was moving back and forth slightly.  I do have a video of the incident and as the flag moves slightly towards the centre of the cup as the wind dies down, the ball moves slightly towards the cup.  Unfortunately, in the picture I have taken the wind is blowing and the ball is at its farthest point from the cup, although it does only move a few millimetres as the wind moves the flag.

 

[mcanadiens]

Isn't the procedure to carefully remove the flag stick and see if it drops? 

It's not good as is, but it looks like it's got a chance to me.

By the way @RustUK, good job getting that ball there. Also, I haven't seen that shade of green in several months now.

[ChetlovesMer]

I say "Hole in one". I'll go on to say "Make mine a rum and coke." 

[DaveP043]

Here's the text from the Rules:

Quote

If a player’s ball comes to rest against the flagstick left in the hole:

• If any part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green, the ball is treated as holed even if the entire ball is not below the surface.
• If no part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green:
  • The ball is not holed and must be played as it lies.
  • If the flagstick is removed and the ball moves (whether it falls into the hole or moves away from the hole), there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced on the lip of the hole (see Rule 14.2).

As I said earlier, if the ball is leaning against the flagstick, to me that means that the center of gravity is no longer over the green surface, but instead is over the hole.  Once the CG moves past the lip, and over the hole, the ball starts to drop, since the contact with the lip of the hole is no longer the lowest point of the ball.  I say it's an ace.

[klineka]

2 hours ago, woodzie264 said:

I’m not a rules expert, but I believe the ball has to rest in the bottom of the cup to constitute it being holed

Nope. See @DaveP043 response with the quote from the rule right above mine.

[RustUK]

Ok, this is starting to look like the consensus is a hole in one.  That is great news, not least because I wasn't looking forward to tracking down all of the members I bought a drink for after the round and asking for my money back. 😉

[billchao]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

I agree, its hard to say for sure whether any part of the ball is below the level of the surface.  On the other hand, if the ball is leaning against the flag, that means its center of gravity is over the hole instead of over the surface.  And if you draw that up, with the lowest point of the ball (directly under the CG) within the circumference of the cup, at least a tiny bit of the ball has to be below the surface.  That photo makes it look really close.

That's the best I can zoom in on that picture and I'm going with not holed. Sorry @RustUK.

1 hour ago, mcanadiens said:

Isn't the procedure to carefully remove the flag stick and see if it drops? 

Not anymore.

[RustUK]

I think it's a bit clearer in this shot from the video I took and hopefully I think part of the ball is below the surface.

[mcanadiens]

39 minutes ago, billchao said:

Not anymore.

Good to know.

Does seem a bit of a shame though. Seems like a rough way to get denied something that doesn't come very often.

[Eric C]

It's totally a HIO.  I think that @RustUK 's blow up of the picture is pretty definitive.  

Congratulations!

[dsc123]

1 hour ago, RustUK said:

I think it's a bit clearer in this shot from the video I took and hopefully I think part of the ball is below the surface.

That looks holed to me.  I'd say less than half the ball is on the grass, so the center is over the hold and therefore the low point is below the top of the hole.

 

Congrats!

 

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by dsc123

[Cantankerish]

It sure seems silly that this would possibly not be a holed ball.  The flag is supposed to be firmly in place in the center of the hole.  What I see here is a flag that has moved in a manner that it is not supposed to have.  Is there no mention of a defective flag stick in the rules for this?

[David in FL]

Just now, Cantankerish said:

It sure seems silly that this would possibly not be a holed ball.  The flag is supposed to be firmly in place in the center of the hole.  What I see here is a flag that has moved in a manner that it is not supposed to have.  Is there no mention of a defective flag stick in the rules for this?

The flagstick isn’t defective.  Sometimes the wind blows it around.  Sometimes inconsiderate players don’t put it in properly.  That’s life, and the game.  

Fortunately, the rules address the situation nicely.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

As I said earlier, if the ball is leaning against the flagstick, to me that means that the center of gravity is no longer over the green surface, but instead is over the hole.

Maybe "likely" even, but no, it doesn't mean that.

Sorry, I vote not a hole in one. I see none of the ball below the lip. It appears to be sitting pretty close to the edge, but not over it.

Also…