Are Golf Courses Too Long and Difficult? Lee Trevino Interview

I think many courses in the last 15 -20 years have been built as housing developments or for resorts where the real goal was to provide as many lots for condos and houses as possible. Golf playability for average golfers and maintenance was a low priority. This results in very expensive golf courses that average golfers don't enjoy. The other reasons are ego and word of mouth advertising. When people ask for a recommendation they tend to ask better golfers who love challenging courses. This even impacts league and outing decisions, charity events etc. Ego comes in to play because everyone wants to be connected with building a course that can be described as an elite championship course. The problem is very few areas need more than one or at the most two high end courses. So the new course takes rounds or members from an existing course or both often struggle.

I know people who are better players and if they play anything under 6900-7000 the course is just really short for them. The problem is too many courses are trying to create a challenge for the long hitters/better players. 

 

 

And what percentage of all the golfers would they represent? Less than one percent perhaps?

 

Lee is correct. Courses aren't built for everyday, average golfers. They're palaces to the scratch player. And cost a ton to maintain.

Beat me to it.  Guys who need 7000 yds represent about the smallest fraction of golfers you can imagine.

 

 

I posted on another thread that once the course is over 6,500 yards, I don't enjoy it. Between 6,000 and 6,500 works well for me and Most of the people I play with. I do know a few guys that always want to play the tips, and they struggle - they have no business being back there. Guys who need 7,000 yards are definitely a small % of all golfers - still too many who think they need to be playing from that distance

Lee is right.  Courses don't have to be overly long to challenge even the best golfers.  If they did, the PGA wouldn't go to Harbour Town.  

I agree with Lee. I usually play the back or second-to-back tees, but when I play with friends (a few times a year), we always move forward. Mostly because they're absolutely terrible , but partly because it's just really, really fun.

About a year and a half ago we did a forward tees challenge here at TST, and it was a load of fun. I shot a -5.

 

 

Playing up a set of tees can definitely be more fun. One time I played from the "mens tees" instead of the back tees at my home course because well, that is where they had my flight playing from. I made 5 birdies that day. 4 of them were in a row. I had a lot of fun that day. Too bad I also made 5 bogeys on the day. 

My home course is about 6,200 from the whites and is still slope 133 (it's 6,800 from the blues and slope 138). The course is hard, but you can play strategic with an iron off some tees and it's still shoot a good score. There are bunkers in front of most greens, but if you hit a good drive you can wedge it in there and have a chance.

I agree wholeheartedly I am going to keep bumping this thread until everybody in the world of golf has read the interview.

 

(or until I get banned. whichever comes first)

It has been discussed on this forum before.  Creative design would eliminate the need for really long courses.  It makes it fun. 

I thought I would add that many courses place the fairway bunkers so that they are about a 240-250 yard carry from the back and 210-220 from the white tees. This means that they don't challenge better players but average players are in them all the time. Especially on long par 4s or short par 5s they should be 275 or more to carry from the back. This means that the difference in front to back tees needs to have a greater spread. My home course has two par 5s that are 540 from the back tees and 500-510 from the white. Realistically the middle tees should be that distance and the front tees about 480. The ladies tees are at about 440-450. Most of the women I have played with usually have a 5 or 6 iron for their third shot, after two full shots, I lay up and hit a wedge. No wonder more women don't play.

I don't really mind courses in the 7200 - 7300 yard range.  It depends on how you get the yardage.  Par 4s that are over 500 is just stupid.  We have a course in town that had a 540 yard par 4....  I like the idea of restricting the golf balls

Many thanks to Trevino for being so candid.  I doubt he's invited to design many courses because of his views that don't follow received wisdom.

 

And like someone said, courses that are shortish for the pros can be designed to be more difficult for them than the yardage might suggest (yet more forgiving for the high capper) - that would not be brain surgery for a good designer. 

 

The game of golf is indeed in trouble in this country - time to do something about it.  Golf is too expensive for many, and often takes too much time (often >5 hrs), partly because some courses are too long. 

You can trick up a short track too. One of the old money, tight acreage courses here in South Africa hired Jack a few years ago to bring their layout back up to "tournament standard." With no way to add length, he settled for constructing green complexes so diabolical that the average member handicap at the club went out six shots in the year after it reopened. Guess what, he's back right now grading off a few tiers.

 

 

I still contend that lengthening is not the way to go for upping difficulty but narrowing instead.  Fairways are too wide, too easy to get to the landing spots without much trouble, so on and so forth. 

 

Use trees more(not only does it create difficulty on the course, its also asthetically pleasing and good for the environment) use slopes and mounding more(side slope, downhill, uphill).

 

I actually think that if more courses used closely mowed areas instead of so much rough...they would end up more difficult.  shave banks into bunkers both fairway and greenside. 

The problem with that is that people take forever looking for their balls in the trees, and if they don't find them they have to re-tee.