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Sun Ju Ahn Builds Stroke in Women's British Open, 2 Stroke Penalty

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

I did not see this but have read that at the current British Women's Open the Korean Pro Ms. Ahn was retroactively penalized 2 for 'excessive digging in the bunker'. She dropped out of the lead.  Of course during the discussion after the round she said she thought she was entitled to dig in and make a stance in the sand. Naturally she was accepting of the penalty as she has no other choice.  The judges are, probably, older white men and offer no higher court of golf law.   Seems highly judgmental to me.

Let me also say that i did read that she (maybe) greatly eroded the edge of the bunker so she could place her foot on the level. 

 

And i wonder are these Asian players getting more than their share of such penalties?  The Chinese  boy at the Master's getting socked for 'slow play', now this Korean.  

 

If someone has a video URL to post, thanks. 

post #2 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by joekelly View Post

I did not see this but have read that at the current British Women's Open the Korean Pro Ms. Ahn was retroactively penalized 2 for 'excessive digging in the bunker'. She dropped out of the lead.  Of course during the discussion after the round she said she thought she was entitled to dig in and make a stance in the sand. Naturally she was accepting of the penalty as she has no other choice.  The judges are, probably, older white men and offer no higher court of golf law.   Seems highly judgmental to me.
Let me also say that i did read that she (maybe) greatly eroded the edge of the bunker so she could place her foot on the level. 

And i wonder are these Asian players getting more than their share of such penalties?  The Chinese  boy at the Master's getting socked for 'slow play', now this Korean.  

If someone has a video URL to post, thanks. 



http://t.golfweek.com/news/2014/jul/12/sun-ju-ahn-penalty-bunker-women-british-open-stanc/?

There's nothing wrong with discussing the rules as they're applied, and even disagreeing with the application, but it would be better to understand the situation before doing so.
post #3 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by joekelly View Post
 

I did not see this but have read that at the current British Women's Open the Korean Pro Ms. Ahn was retroactively penalized 2 for 'excessive digging in the bunker'. She dropped out of the lead.  Of course during the discussion after the round she said she thought she was entitled to dig in and make a stance in the sand. Naturally she was accepting of the penalty as she has no other choice.  The judges are, probably, older white men and offer no higher court of golf law.   Seems highly judgmental to me.

Let me also say that i did read that she (maybe) greatly eroded the edge of the bunker so she could place her foot on the level. 

 

And i wonder are these Asian players getting more than their share of such penalties?  The Chinese  boy at the Master's getting socked for 'slow play', now this Korean.  

 

If someone has a video URL to post, thanks. 

 

Yeah, Susan Simpson just sounds like the name of an old white guy.  :doh:  Some people need to wait until it actually happens before they start accusing anyone of racism. 

post #4 of 26

The video

 

http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/11207071/inbee-park-1-shot-lead-women-british-open

 

She certainly pushes sand down the slope with her left foot.

 

But not quite as blatant as this

 

http://www.usga.org/...les_ver7_hi.asx

post #5 of 26

The ruling looks perfectly fine to me. She clearly shoved the sand on the edge down, to give her a flatter stance. Having your ball around the edges of the bunker sometimes means you have to stand at an angle. You can't just flatten out the sand like that.

 

Quote:
 

13-3. Building Stance

A player is entitled to place his feet firmly in taking his stance, but he must not build a stance.

post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph View Post
 

The ruling looks perfectly fine to me. She clearly shoved the sand on the edge down, to give her a flatter stance. Having your ball around the edges of the bunker sometimes means you have to stand at an angle. You can't just flatten out the sand like that.

 

+1 agreed that it doesn't look like there is anything to see here.. move along!

post #7 of 26
This was interesting, had to think back to recall if I've ever done it because I do auger in to a bunker on occasion. I'm honestly not sure but have to admit that I probably have violated this rule at some. Another chapter in the education of Gunther...
post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunther View Post

This was interesting, had to think back to recall if I've ever done it because I do auger in to a bunker on occasion. I'm honestly not sure but have to admit that I probably have violated this rule at some. Another chapter in the education of Gunther...

 

There can be a fine line between taking a stance as the rules allow and digging in to the point of incurring a penalty.  I try to err on the side of caution.  When I "dig in" I do so very gingerly and only enough to set my feet.  I've played in tournaments with guys that I thought may have crossed the line, but because it's so difficult to know just where that line is, I've never called them on it.  One time it was a friend who did it, and I discussed it with him after the round, and he agreed that maybe he was more aggressive that he needed to be.  He changed his approach to it in subsequent tournaments.

 

After seeing the replay this morning on the tournament broadcast, I agree with the penalty for Ahn.

post #9 of 26

I saw it live.  Definitely deserved the penalty.  It was odd in the post penalty interview, she seems to not be sure of what she did.  But that was through a translator.  At that level, she should clearly know the rules about bunker and stance.

post #10 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

I saw it live.  Definitely deserved the penalty.  It was odd in the post penalty interview, she seems to not be sure of what she did.  But that was through a translator.  At that level, she should clearly know the rules about bunker and stance.

 

Basically, you can twist your feet to get a little firmer footing, but you can't go shoving or pulling or pushing a bunch of sand around.

 

She clearly did the latter. Just as Calvin Peete did (he should have been penalized but wasn't) in whatever MONY Tournament of Champions event they showed this morning.

post #11 of 26

Joe Kelly, your intuition serves you well. Some commenters here offered scant descriptions of what happened.  Some of us saw it live. First, this kind of 'aribtrary' rule (13-3) lends itself to abuse by biased TV color commentators and/or officials. i.e., if you want to be an true jerk you can by trying to hold someone to some arbitrary 'letter of the law.' Doesn't everyone virtually 'build a foundation or stance' in the bunker by stepping into the sand as they approach the ball, then GRIND/TWIST their feet into the sand a couple of inches for a fews seconds+ (displacing sand) to 'establish a foundation' for hitting the ball!!!  Others say they know of players known to do similar to Ahn yet were never penalized.  Why? This poor girl put her left foot on a vertical wall to get a stance to hit the shot and the sand collapsed. So she tried to dig in like other players do on every bunker shot.  But one can't twist their left foot into a vertical wall.  You have to move your foot back and forth briefly like she did to 'firm up your stance.'  When this occured on TV, ESPN2 broadcaster Dottie Pepper essentially yelled 'fire,' -VIOLATION, TWO STROKES.  She called to have Ahn docked 2 shots and wouldn't stop talking about it.  ESPN2 repeatedly showed replay video of Ahn in sandtrap on 18th until officials were essentially backed into a corner to penalize her (although some might feel they were all too happy to do so).  After Ahn finished, ESPN2 broadcasters raced to bring this to the attention of rules officials, who expectedly docked her 2 strokes.  Would ESPN2/Dottie Pepper have done this to Lexi Thompson, Stacy Lewis, or Paula Creamer?  Are you kidding?!! Of course not!!!  And to poor salt into the wound, ESPN2 continually brought up on Sunday's broadcast, Ahn's 2 stroke penalty from the prevoius day (seemed like 7 times+).  Yet when Shanshan Feng of China was in a bunker on the back 9 on Sunday, she approached the ball and grinded both feet  into the sand for a few seconds, 'DISPLACING' sand.  But before hitting the ball, she grinded her left foot into the sand even MORE. Yet Dottie Pepper was no where to be found yelling, 'VIOLATION' ON FENG OF CHINA.' 

 

Was this another example of racism by ESPN2/LPGA/Dottie Pepper?  Let's not forget that some 5-6 years ago LPGA arrogantly tried to enforce an 'english-only' rule for golfers, that many believed was a devious effort to cut in half the number of Korean players on the tour.  This rightly earned the world's backlash of racism charges against LPGA. But make no mistake. LPGA is not biased against Asian players.  It's the Korean Asians they don't like (jealousy, envy because of their dominance on tour in terms of wins and money earnings).  Anyone who's hung in LPGA circles is aware of the racist bias against the Koreans.  It has even poisoned the attitude of some fans walking in the galleries who sometimes mutter under their breath untrue statements that the Koreans speak no english et. al. 

Others have said one could identify other situations (on youtube) where LPGA violations occured yet broadcasters from ESPN2/GChannel failed to bring attention to it.  Why? 

 

Recenlty GChannel and LPGA publications have seemingly gloated that American players are BACK on top with 2014 wins, and that SKorean players have stumbled.  Has the racism (jealousy/envy) against SKorean players resurfaced in a bold attack of Ahn at British Open in hopes of keeping her off the winner's podium? U decide.  Some say it would seem so since Lexi, Stacy wouldn't get that kind of shaft.  Bottomline is the Ahn payed the price for DPepper's pursuit of her. After all it's almost impossible for a player to overcome that kind of humiliaton at the hands of one Dottie Pepper and play well the next day.  And yes, Ahn didn't play so great on Sunday as expected, while the day before everyone KNEW she was the player to beat. People in the know say one thing LPGA does not like is for a non-speaking english Korean to appear on the winner's podium.  And BTW, Ahn is not fluent in english as of yet. hmmm

 

Anyone familiar with GChannel LPGA coverage knows they consistently minimize coverage of LPGA Korean players on broadcasts (unless they happen to be in the top 3...). In past years many have noticed numerous, critical comments of Korean players’ play while putting positive spin on exact same play of other players (in hopes of ‘poisoning’ viewers against K players?)  e.g., 2 players can miss a putt exactly the same way. But the SKorean player ‘just totally misread, mishit and blew that putt’ while other player's ‘ball just decided to go right of the hole for some strange reason!’  Since there are less Koreans on tour now, GC reportedly doesn't engage in this kind of attacks much anymore.

 

If you are an Asian or Korean player representing another country (e.g.,Michelle Wie-US, Lydia Ko-Australia. Yani Tseng-Taiwan etc) then GC seems to give you more coverage with little negative commentary to boot.  The bias is obvious for all to see.  Yet colluders will say when 6' weeds are pointed to in the garden, 'I don't see any weeds in the garden!'

 

Ref.: “Rule 13-3 states that a player is entitled to place feet firmly in taking a stance, but must not build a stance.”  (difference between grinding your feet into sand like most pros do vs. 'building a stance.'  sound like a bunch of horse___t?)

http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/11207071/inbee-park-1-shot-lead-women-british-open

post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by SalLanteri View Post
 

Joe Kelly, your intuition serves you well. Some commenters here offered scant descriptions of what happened.  Some of us saw it live. First, this kind of 'aribtrary' rule (13-3) lends itself to abuse by biased TV color commentators and/or officials. i.e., if you want to be an true jerk you can by trying to hold someone to some arbitrary 'letter of the law.' Doesn't everyone virtually 'build a foundation or stance' in the bunker by stepping into the sand as they approach the ball, then GRIND/TWIST their feet into the sand a couple of inches for a fews seconds+ (displacing sand) to 'establish a foundation' for hitting the ball!!!  Others say they know of players known to do similar to Ahn yet were never penalized.  Why? This poor girl put her left foot on a vertical wall to get a stance to hit the shot and the sand collapsed. So she tried to dig in like other players do on every bunker shot.  But one can't twist their left foot into a vertical wall.  You have to move your foot back and forth briefly like she did to 'firm up your stance.' 

 

I saw sand collapsing and I saw her building a stance for the left foot. Why did she not just accept the fact that the bank was too steep and step on the sand after first try? No, she just kept moving more and more sand.

 

There was another occasion where a player stepped up and down few times on sand with her right foot, it might have been Ahn again, not sure.

 

The rest of your text was cut off intentionally.

post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by joekelly View Post
 

 

And i wonder are these Asian players getting more than their share of such penalties?  The Chinese  boy at the Master's getting socked for 'slow play', now this Korean.  

 

If someone has a video URL to post, thanks. 

Two penalties out of hundreds each year. You seem to have a problem

post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by SalLanteri View Post
 

Joe Kelly, your intuition serves you well. Some commenters here offered scant descriptions of what happened.  Some of us saw it live. First, this kind of 'aribtrary' rule (13-3) lends itself to abuse by biased TV color commentators and/or officials. i.e., if you want to be an true jerk you can by trying to hold someone to some arbitrary 'letter of the law.' Doesn't everyone virtually 'build a foundation or stance' in the bunker by stepping into the sand as they approach the ball, then GRIND/TWIST their feet into the sand a couple of inches for a fews seconds+ (displacing sand) to 'establish a foundation' for hitting the ball!!!  Others say they know of players known to do similar to Ahn yet were never penalized.  Why? This poor girl put her left foot on a vertical wall to get a stance to hit the shot and the sand collapsed. So she tried to dig in like other players do on every bunker shot.  But one can't twist their left foot into a vertical wall.  You have to move your foot back and forth briefly like she did to 'firm up your stance.'  When this occured on TV, ESPN2 broadcaster Dottie Pepper essentially yelled 'fire,' -VIOLATION, TWO STROKES.  She called to have Ahn docked 2 shots and wouldn't stop talking about it.  ESPN2 repeatedly showed replay video of Ahn in sandtrap on 18th until officials were essentially backed into a corner to penalize her (although some might feel they were all too happy to do so).  After Ahn finished, ESPN2 broadcasters raced to bring this to the attention of rules officials, who expectedly docked her 2 strokes.  Would ESPN2/Dottie Pepper have done this to Lexi Thompson, Stacy Lewis, or Paula Creamer?  Are you kidding?!! Of course not!!!  And to poor salt into the wound, ESPN2 continually brought up on Sunday's broadcast, Ahn's 2 stroke penalty from the prevoius day (seemed like 7 times+).  Yet when Shanshan Feng of China was in a bunker on the back 9 on Sunday, she approached the ball and grinded both feet  into the sand for a few seconds, 'DISPLACING' sand.  But before hitting the ball, she grinded her left foot into the sand even MORE. Yet Dottie Pepper was no where to be found yelling, 'VIOLATION' ON FENG OF CHINA.' 

 

Was this another example of racism by ESPN2/LPGA/Dottie Pepper?  Let's not forget that some 5-6 years ago LPGA arrogantly tried to enforce an 'english-only' rule for golfers, that many believed was a devious effort to cut in half the number of Korean players on the tour.  This rightly earned the world's backlash of racism charges against LPGA. But make no mistake. LPGA is not biased against Asian players.  It's the Korean Asians they don't like (jealousy, envy because of their dominance on tour in terms of wins and money earnings).  Anyone who's hung in LPGA circles is aware of the racist bias against the Koreans.  It has even poisoned the attitude of some fans walking in the galleries who sometimes mutter under their breath untrue statements that the Koreans speak no english et. al. 

Others have said one could identify other situations (on youtube) where LPGA violations occured yet broadcasters from ESPN2/GChannel failed to bring attention to it.  Why? 

 

Recenlty GChannel and LPGA publications have seemingly gloated that American players are BACK on top with 2014 wins, and that SKorean players have stumbled.  Has the racism (jealousy/envy) against SKorean players resurfaced in a bold attack of Ahn at British Open in hopes of keeping her off the winner's podium? U decide.  Some say it would seem so since Lexi, Stacy wouldn't get that kind of shaft.  Bottomline is the Ahn payed the price for DPepper's pursuit of her. After all it's almost impossible for a player to overcome that kind of humiliaton at the hands of one Dottie Pepper and play well the next day.  And yes, Ahn didn't play so great on Sunday as expected, while the day before everyone KNEW she was the player to beat. People in the know say one thing LPGA does not like is for a non-speaking english Korean to appear on the winner's podium.  And BTW, Ahn is not fluent in english as of yet. hmmm

 

Anyone familiar with GChannel LPGA coverage knows they consistently minimize coverage of LPGA Korean players on broadcasts (unless they happen to be in the top 3...). In past years many have noticed numerous, critical comments of Korean players’ play while putting positive spin on exact same play of other players (in hopes of ‘poisoning’ viewers against K players?)  e.g., 2 players can miss a putt exactly the same way. But the SKorean player ‘just totally misread, mishit and blew that putt’ while other player's ‘ball just decided to go right of the hole for some strange reason!’  Since there are less Koreans on tour now, GC reportedly doesn't engage in this kind of attacks much anymore.

 

If you are an Asian or Korean player representing another country (e.g.,Michelle Wie-US, Lydia Ko-Australia. Yani Tseng-Taiwan etc) then GC seems to give you more coverage with little negative commentary to boot.  The bias is obvious for all to see.  Yet colluders will say when 6' weeds are pointed to in the garden, 'I don't see any weeds in the garden!'

 

Ref.: “Rule 13-3 states that a player is entitled to place feet firmly in taking a stance, but must not build a stance.”  (difference between grinding your feet into sand like most pros do vs. 'building a stance.'  sound like a bunch of horse___t?)

http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/11207071/inbee-park-1-shot-lead-women-british-open

Welcome to the site.  I think the broadcasters have and will always call attention to rules violations.  Just ask Michelle Wie and Tiger Woods.  There a many examples just this year of rules violations that were seen on camera.  She should know the rule and avoid have any questions.

post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

Welcome to the site.  I think the broadcasters have and will always call attention to rules violations.  Just ask Michelle Wie and Tiger Woods.  There a many examples just this year of rules violations that were seen on camera.  She should know the rule and avoid have any questions.

 

2 more people of Asian decent?!   :bugout:

 

 

My God, it IS a great, old-white-man conspiracy!   ;-) 

post #16 of 26

Stacy Lewis was penalized for her acts (her caddie's acts) in a bunker.

 

She must be part Asian!

 

This thread fulfills my daily recommended dose of stupid.

post #17 of 26
I think that deserves a penalty I tend to twist my feet into the sand for downhill sand shots and I'm very careful not to build a stance once my heels are in the sand and I don't lift my feet and kick sand around
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by SalLanteri View Post
 

Recenlty GChannel and LPGA publications have seemingly gloated that American players are BACK on top with 2014 wins, and that SKorean players have stumbled.  Has the racism (jealousy/envy) against SKorean players resurfaced in a bold attack of Ahn at British Open in hopes of keeping her off the winner's podium? U decide.  Some say it would seem so since Lexi, Stacy wouldn't get that kind of shaft.  Bottomline is the Ahn payed the price for DPepper's pursuit of her. After all it's almost impossible for a player to overcome that kind of humiliaton at the hands of one Dottie Pepper and play well the next day.  And yes, Ahn didn't play so great on Sunday as expected, while the day before everyone KNEW she was the player to beat. People in the know say one thing LPGA does not like is for a non-speaking english Korean to appear on the winner's podium.  And BTW, Ahn is not fluent in english as of yet. hmmm

 

Anyone familiar with GChannel LPGA coverage knows they consistently minimize coverage of LPGA Korean players on broadcasts (unless they happen to be in the top 3...). In past years many have noticed numerous, critical comments of Korean players’ play while putting positive spin on exact same play of other players (in hopes of ‘poisoning’ viewers against K players?)  e.g., 2 players can miss a putt exactly the same way. But the SKorean player ‘just totally misread, mishit and blew that putt’ while other player's ‘ball just decided to go right of the hole for some strange reason!’  Since there are less Koreans on tour now, GC reportedly doesn't engage in this kind of attacks much anymore.

 

If you are an Asian or Korean player representing another country (e.g.,Michelle Wie-US, Lydia Ko-Australia. Yani Tseng-Taiwan etc) then GC seems to give you more coverage with little negative commentary to boot.  The bias is obvious for all to see.  Yet colluders will say when 6' weeds are pointed to in the garden, 'I don't see any weeds in the garden!'

 

Ref.: “Rule 13-3 states that a player is entitled to place feet firmly in taking a stance, but must not build a stance.”  (difference between grinding your feet into sand like most pros do vs. 'building a stance.'  sound like a bunch of horse___t?)

http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/11207071/inbee-park-1-shot-lead-women-british-open

Have we actually declined in PC muck to the point where cheering on players from your own country is now considered racism?

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