NFL 2019-2020

[Vinsk]

55 minutes ago, iacas said:

Hence overhyped.

I think this is closer to their level of play than the flashes from before.

Not really. Overhyped implies expectations where there was nothing to back it up. Expected level of play is based on these players’ performances in the recent past. Which was excellent. 

[iacas]

Just now, Vinsk said:

Not really. Overhyped implies expectations where there was nothing to back it up. Expected level of play is based on these players’ performances in the recent past. Which was excellent. 

I disagree. I think the Cowboys are almost always overhyped. They underachieve relative to their chatter, estimates, etc.

That’s why Romo was often seen as a failure - they were overhyped and never performed to that level.

[Vinsk]

45 minutes ago, iacas said:

I disagree. I think the Cowboys are almost always overhyped. They underachieve relative to their chatter, estimates, etc.

That’s why Romo was often seen as a failure - they were overhyped and never performed to that level.

I don’t follow NFL near as much as I used to but I didn’t read anything indicating what I’d call ‘overhyped.’ They were placed at #15 in the power rankings and predicted to win the NFC EAST, which they are leading and have a softer schedule coming up.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t follow NFL near as much as I used to but I didn’t read anything indicating what I’d call ‘overhyped.’ They were placed at #15 in the power rankings and predicted to win the NFC EAST, which they are leading and have a softer schedule coming up.

If you watched the pregame last night you’d have seen overhyped. 🙂

[boogielicious]

2 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t follow NFL near as much as I used to but I didn’t read anything indicating what I’d call ‘overhyped.’ They were placed at #15 in the power rankings and predicted to win the NFC EAST, which they are leading and have a softer schedule coming up.

One issue with rankings in the NFL is they go by yardage. Power rankings are even more dubious. Dallas was seen as the number one offense coming into the Pats game only due to yardage. So some people expected a big offensive game.  The reality is Dallas only had beaten teams with a losing record and yardage is really bad at predicting success. Points, and point differential are really the best predictors and even those don’t account for who you play. 
 

Buffalo showed us that yesterday. 

[Vinsk]

25 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

One issue with rankings in the NFL is they go by yardage. Power rankings are even more dubious. Dallas was seen as the number one offense coming into the Pats game only due to yardage. So some people expected a big offensive game.  The reality is Dallas only had beaten teams with a losing record and yardage is really bad at predicting success. Points, and point differential are really the best predictors and even those don’t account for who you play. 
 

Buffalo showed us that yesterday. 

True, but they also consider their path. Dallas still has a 64.9% chance to make the playoffs because they have the Bears,Rams,Eagles, Redskins left. 

[Shindig]

12 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t follow NFL near as much as I used to but I didn’t read anything indicating what I’d call ‘overhyped.’ They were placed at #15 in the power rankings and predicted to win the NFC EAST, which they are leading and have a softer schedule coming up.

The Cowboys are one of only two teams (the other is New England, go figure) that have played double-digit games this season as the betting favorite.   The Cowboys have fewer wins against teams with a winning record than the Miami Dolphins. 

Even without hearing what they say on TV, that's pretty strong evidence of overhyped in my book.  Maybe I'm misreading it. 

[Vinsk]

7 hours ago, Shindig said:

The Cowboys are one of only two teams (the other is New England, go figure) that have played double-digit games this season as the betting favorite.   The Cowboys have fewer wins against teams with a winning record than the Miami Dolphins. 

Even without hearing what they say on TV, that's pretty strong evidence of overhyped in my book.  Maybe I'm misreading it. 

This post makes no sense as far as what ‘overhyped’ means. You have to have heard ‘hype’ to determine if a team is ‘overhyped’.  Pre-Season I heard the Cowboys will win the NFC EAST and make the playoffs. They are still in line to do that. Apparently others have heard greater predictions and expectations made regarding the Cowboys. 

[mcanadiens]

On 11/29/2019 at 1:08 AM, Shindig said:

Mike Brown's seeming refusal to fund quality practice facilities or a real scouting division probably impacts his team, and thus competitiveness.  I'm not sure if this is greed or if he thinks he can do these things well on a budget.

Mike Brown is a special case.

I truly think that he simply can't understand why he can't run the franchise like his daddy did in the 70s and 80s. What Paul did resulted in reasonably competitive teams in that era. It simply doesn't cut it now and he clearly doesn't get it. Still no GM. Scouting departments that make heavy use of cable tv broadcasts.

One part of things with the Bengals, is that stadium deal they made is one of the most lopsided ever. Hamilton County's budget is still messed up from that deal. As the team continues to lose, you got a lot of people saying they should have just gone to Los Angeles in the first place.

It's hard to say how much is greed and how much is simply a refusal to get with the times. The effect is about the same.

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by mcanadiens

[mcanadiens]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

Apparently others have heard greater predictions and expectations made regarding the Cowboys.

That's life for the Cowboys and their fans. ... Greater expectations that what is realistic.

Definitely a funny looking year with the stats they put up. One interesting number that runs counter to all those offensive yardage numbers is that -4 in turnovers.

They've lost some pretty close games, Just a couple more wins and there would be a lot less complaining now. Garrett can still save himself. I like them against Chicago, the Rams and Redskins. That game with Philly at the Linc could be huge.

Also an interesting note on Garrett. He's the longest-serving coach other than Landry. Been there since 2010.

 

[billchao]

2 hours ago, Vinsk said:

This post makes no sense as far as what ‘overhyped’ means. You have to have heard ‘hype’ to determine if a team is ‘overhyped’.

I hear hype all the time on the broadcast. The announcers talk about them as if they were a top 5 team with the talent they have but inexplicably aren't winning like one. You said it yourself, they were ranked #15 in the power rankings to start the year - that's straight up mediocre.

Every year they talk about the "new big three" of the Cowboys which I find laughable because at one point the group anointed with that title was Romo, Bryant, and Murray. Now it's Prescott, Elliott, and Cooper. No matter who it is they always seem to have a "big three" that makes them a top team in the league and yet they never are.

2 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Pre-Season I heard the Cowboys will win the NFC EAST and make the playoffs. They are still in line to do that.

That prediction was basically a gimme. The NFC East was supposed to (and does) suck this year. There were only ever going to be two horses in the race for the division.

This isn't even a given considering the Eagles have Miami, two games against the Giants, the Redskins, and the Cowboys (not in that order) left.

[Vinsk]

2 hours ago, billchao said:

. You said it yourself, they were ranked #15 in the power rankings to start the year - that's straight up mediocre.

Right. Which supports my opinion they haven’t been ‘overhyped.’

2 hours ago, billchao said:

5 hours ago, Vinsk said:

 

That prediction was basically a gimme. The NFC East was supposed to (and does) suck this year.

Again, not overhyped. You made good points in my favor. If it was said ‘Cowboys have a team to win the Super Bowl this year...they’ll be a very tough team to beat.’ That would be an overhyped statement. If that was said I haven’t heard it. Nobody has said anything they actually heard that shows an overhyped attitude towards them.

[JetFan1983]

It's kind of a chicken or the egg thing with Dallas. We have a large enough sample to know that Jason Garrett is a below average head coach, but the Dallas players also haven't played well either. I do however think that a new head coach is the way to go if you're Jerry.

There have just been too many silly things over the years, including this year, that makes me scratch my head and wonder. The FG down seven last week in New England with six minutes to go probably should have been four down territory. They gave up a huge play against Minnesota a few weeks ago with just ten men on the field. It ultimately led to a TD and Dallas lost 28-24. And as good as I think Dak Prescott is as a talent (I'm not a hater), he isn't coached up enough in some of these late game spots where he has to know that taking a 3 or 4 yard scramble is better than an incomplete. He's done that quite a bit year to setup more difficult four downs. That's partly on Dak/partly on the coach for not hammering at him in practice to stop doing that.

I'm not sure who the answer should be here at HC. Kellan Moore is pretty young and has shown as many great flashes of play calling as he has bad. I'm sure some no name out there could probably do a better job though.

If anyone cares, here's what Profootballfocus thinks of Dallas. They're their 4th rated team overall this year based on each graded play, so PFF loves them I guess:

I've been a subscriber there for years so I know how much salt to take these grades with, but it's still always interesting to see what they think. Overall, based on their name value, it seems Dallas has underachieved on the offensive line as well as defensively. Their grades do reflect that as well.

As far as them being overhyped every year, Dallas has the highest Forbes valuation at just over 5.5 billion, so it makes sense why people talk about them a lot. They have a crap load of supporters. Other than that though, I do think they're underachieving given the amount of talent they have. But like I said, that probably has to do with poor execution and a few too many guys playing through injuries as it does with Garrett's poor preparation. I know everyone's injured at this point, but Dallas does seem pretty banged up too.

[jamo]

1 hour ago, JetFan1983 said:

If anyone cares, here's what Profootballfocus thinks of Dallas. They're their 4th rated team overall this year based on each graded play, so PFF loves them I guess:

I've been a subscriber there for years so I know how much salt to take these grades with, but it's still always interesting to see what they think. Overall, based on their name value, it seems Dallas has underachieved on the offensive line as well as defensively. Their grades do reflect that as well.

FWIW, Football Outsiders had them at 5th in DVOA before the Buffalo game. 
 

2019 NFL TEAM EFFICIENCY RATINGS | Football Outsiders

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Regular season totals, through Week 12 Revised as of 11/26/2019 These are the Football Outsiders...

 

[JetFan1983]

31 minutes ago, jamo said:

FWIW, Football Outsiders had them at 5th in DVOA before the Buffalo game. 
 

2019 NFL TEAM EFFICIENCY RATINGS | Football Outsiders

---

Regular season totals, through Week 12 Revised as of...

 

Ahhh interesting that they like Dallas too. That’s another good site that if you take with just the right amount of salt grains you can make some pretty good predictions. 
 

Good to see DVOA has Dallas’s special teams ranked 32nd lol. They’ve been absolutely awful there all season.

[David in FL]

3 hours ago, JetFan1983 said:

It's kind of a chicken or the egg thing with Dallas. We have a large enough sample to know that Jason Garrett is a below average head coach, but the Dallas players also haven't played well either. I do however think that a new head coach is the way to go if you're Jerry.

There have just been too many silly things over the years, including this year, that makes me scratch my head and wonder. The FG down seven last week in New England with six minutes to go probably should have been four down territory. They gave up a huge play against Minnesota a few weeks ago with just ten men on the field. It ultimately led to a TD and Dallas lost 28-24. And as good as I think Dak Prescott is as a talent (I'm not a hater), he isn't coached up enough in some of these late game spots where he has to know that taking a 3 or 4 yard scramble is better than an incomplete. He's done that quite a bit year to setup more difficult four downs. That's partly on Dak/partly on the coach for not hammering at him in practice to stop doing that.

I'm not sure who the answer should be here at HC. Kellan Moore is pretty young and has shown as many great flashes of play calling as he has bad. I'm sure some no name out there could probably do a better job though.

If anyone cares, here's what Profootballfocus thinks of Dallas. They're their 4th rated team overall this year based on each graded play, so PFF loves them I guess:

I've been a subscriber there for years so I know how much salt to take these grades with, but it's still always interesting to see what they think. Overall, based on their name value, it seems Dallas has underachieved on the offensive line as well as defensively. Their grades do reflect that as well.

As far as them being overhyped every year, Dallas has the highest Forbes valuation at just over 5.5 billion, so it makes sense why people talk about them a lot. They have a crap load of supporters. Other than that though, I do think they're underachieving given the amount of talent they have. But like I said, that probably has to do with poor execution and a few too many guys playing through injuries as it does with Garrett's poor preparation. I know everyone's injured at this point, but Dallas does seem pretty banged up too.

America’s team my old, hairy, white ass!    😁

[Buckeyebowman]

On 11/29/2019 at 1:08 AM, Shindig said:

Mike Brown's seeming refusal to fund quality practice facilities or a real scouting division probably impacts his team, and thus competitiveness.  I'm not sure if this is greed or if he thinks he can do these things well on a budget.

There are cheap ass owners in the NFL, Dan Snyder also comes to mind! As did Jimmy Haslam until a couple of years ago, when Dorsey convinced him to loosen the purse strings a little.

And everybody has a budget, it's just what kind of a budget is it? Every NFL team owner can take that extra, unspent cap money and stuff it in their pocket after the season is over. I figure Jimmerz had extra expenses when the Feds were up his nose, so he was going the frugal route. 

If that's what he thinks, then Mike Brown's ideas seem like "analytics gone wild"! 

[Cartboy]

Speaking of over-hyped, that certainly applies to The Chefs, who have been grabbing and ripping my heart out for more than 30 years.

We endured the likes of Frank Ganz, Martyball, and 30,000 people in the stadium.  We tailgated, among the first to arrive and last to leave, and cooked two meals in our 20-foot canopy, w/propane heaters.

For away games, I remember being banished to the bedroom for yelling, "CUT!  CUT!  CUT!" at the TV when Dante Hall returned kicks: