Jump to content
Hugh Jars

Course Management Strategies to Break 90

177 posts / 11962 viewsLast Reply

Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, Hugh Jars said:

Pretty consistent theme I’ve picked up from you is you’re quick to arrogantly right off other approaches just to promote your own, which coincidentally you benefit from financially. Hardly impartial. Not a good look. 

Ironic that you find the advice of an instructor you disagree with as arrogant and dismissive but the advice of another person putting out content on YouTube dismissing other instructors and being downright derogatory as refreshing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Register for free today and you won't see this ad spot again!

11 hours ago, Hugh Jars said:

Came across a YouTube guy called Just Your Average Golfer.

He's not an average golfer, and the problem with videos like his are that he's saying to lay up (off the tee, on the approach shot)… and then he hits those shots really well. On the first hole, he hit a 220-yard shot about 220 yards and in the fairway, and then hit a 200-yard shot about 200 from the fairway, and then pitched from 60 yards or whatever to 30 feet or so.

Nobody struggling to break 90 is going to do that very often. Not even many people struggling to break 80 are going to do that very often. Furthermore, as has been pointed out… while these strategies may help you achieve a "number" if you have a good day, you'd have likely shot that number (or better) if you had a "good day" hitting driver a bit more often, and bigger yet, they don't continue to prepare you to play regularly at or below that number or to get better and advance your entire skill set. Being able to hit driver well is pretty typical.

And, beyond that, he's simply taking the strategy and Rule from LSW and darkening the "shades of grey" he sees.

This "just hit your shorter clubs and give yourself par putts" strategy has been taught for decades. It doesn't really work. It barely works short term, and it doesn't work long term because you aren't learning the skills needed.

At the end of the day, if you want to improve your scores, work on your full swing the most. That is where the majority of the shots that truly determine your score comes from. Speaking of course for the general population, not any one golfer specifically.

11 hours ago, Hugh Jars said:

Advocates working on the short game a lot.

We know this is dumb, though.

11 hours ago, Hugh Jars said:

Pretty consistent theme I’ve picked up from you is you’re quick to arrogantly right off other approaches just to promote your own

Oh cut the crap. Just like @golfsidekick, you respond to your own topics weeks or months later by not even responding. If you have any sort of problem with the many issues raised against the videos you've posted, address them. Man up. Discuss. Debate.

Because I've got a WHOLE lot of research and data behind what I espouse. I'm confident in them because I've not only seen and taught thousands of golfers, I've got data from millions of holes played by golfers of various levels. Millions of shots.

11 hours ago, Hugh Jars said:

which coincidentally you benefit from financially.

Hell yeah I do. I'm a golf professional.

And even still… you can find probably 85-95% of the information in LSW right here on the forum for free. People buy the book because it's not worth the time to try to find everything, because they can read it offline, etc.

And, the thing I hinted at above that you don't seem to get… these "cautious" approaches are just variations of what's in LSW. They're just playing all trouble as being a darker "shade of grey" than they are, really.

Spoiler

 

But hey, screw me, right? What have I ever done? Except sit on a panel at the PGA Show with Mark Broadie. Except be named to Golf Digest's Best Young Teachers and Best in State list. Except win the Teacher of the Year award from my PGA section. Except co-author a book that's sold nearly 20,000 copies. Except consult with a number of PGA Tour players. Except raise a daughter that could give you several shots a side and still kick your butt. Except attempt to help you in your Member Swing topic, while you post about how "pros" are only teach technical and students don't get better (or some such nonsense).

What have I ever done, except research exactly this damn topic with thousands of golfers, millions of rounds (with hundreds of millions of shots)? What have I ever done, except put out much of this information for free in a way that lets schlubs like you come on here and talk down to me while having your head firmly up your own ass about kitschy methods or whatever you find on YouTube from known douches like @golfsidekick.

 

Look, @Hugh Jars, I've re-read every post (all two of them prior to this one) that I've made in this topic, and I stand by them and what they say. Meanwhile, you've said dumb stuff about how it doesn't give you "confidence" - indicating you've not even looked at, for example, this discussion. You've put down 6.7 handicappers here by calling them "clueless."

You've completely ignored comments like this:

On 9/6/2019 at 11:52 AM, iacas said:

Hell, most PGA Tour players would break 90 if they three-putted every hole in which they GIR'd and never got up and down (two putts after each short game shot).

Why? My hunch: because they directly counter the assertions you've made from the videos you like.

You've ignored comments like this:

On 9/10/2019 at 9:29 AM, iacas said:

Seriously… Didi's videos prove the opposite of what you and others think it does: that the full swing matters the most. Didi hits it solidly and in the right direction most of the time. He's near the green in regulation or hits it most of the time.

Why? It's contrary to what you think, and what the videos attempt to say. I also said this:

On 9/10/2019 at 9:29 AM, iacas said:

I'm glad you like them, @Hugh Jars, but a lot of the Sidekick stuff is pretty bad stuff. If you were to chart Didi's rounds from an SG perspective, you'd see that he's doing pretty well on the full swing stuff.

The response from you? Non-existent. Just this bullshit about how arrogant I am because I sell a book for which I make almost enough per copy sold to visit Starbucks (for my wife and daughter, as I'm not a coffee guy).

Then I said this:

On 9/15/2019 at 9:59 AM, iacas said:

Learn to hit the shot between the hero shot and the super safe one. A lot of golfers are too conservative when in trouble.

Which is almost exactly what was shown in this recent video you just posted.

Meanwhile, you literally don't know what you're talking about, because not only have you not read LSW, you've seemingly not even read about 20% of the LSW content that's freely available here on TST.

5 minutes ago, billchao said:

Ironic that you find the advice of an instructor you disagree with as arrogant and dismissive but the advice of another person putting out content on YouTube dismissing other instructors and being downright derogatory as refreshing.

Nailed it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

11 minutes ago, billchao said:

Ironic that you find the advice of an instructor you disagree with as arrogant and dismissive but the advice of another person putting out content on YouTube dismissing other instructors and being downright derogatory as refreshing.

Difference is one does it with malice, the other does it humorously, tongue in cheek 😘

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Hugh Jars said:

Difference is one does it with malice, the other does it humorously, tongue in cheek 😘

Since I absolutely know and can state unequivocally that I've not done it with malice (or greed, in case you wanted to go there next), then it must be your types that are doing it with malice. Because it sure as hell ain't me.

You drop in here and post stuff, almost never responding to the actual points raised, then belittle me and put down other "pros."

Cool!

There are a LOT of people here who can tell you about the thousands and thousands of hours of FREE information I've given away, the help I've given them, etc. But yeah, you're probably right… it's all done out of malice. Even the times I've tried to help you, for free.

Oy. Look, @Hugh Jars, either debate and discuss the actual information, opinions, etc. or move along to somewhere else. You're not adding anything to the discussion here except by bringing it down with the bullshit name-calling and baseless belittling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I was (and still am for entertainment value) quite the GSK fan. I was hitting 4 iron off the tee for a while because I never could hit driver or woods, but instead of doing that forever, I learned to hit them because the advantage of being 60-120 yards on a second shot versus 120-180 yards is so great. Likewise, the split the distance stuff that he talks about to leave full shots into greens is hogwash. Why in the world would I hit 2 120 or 140 yard shots to get to a green, when I can just as easily hit my 4 wood 200 yards and be left with 60ish yards in and play an easy pitch? LSW shows you why this mentality isn't correct. My best score on the short course nearby (5000 yards from the members which i play, par 71 CR 63.0 SR 103) has gone from a 92 to a 78 within a month. It's almost like being close to the hole makes it easier to get there in less shots or something.

One thing that GSK does get completely right is avoiding trouble by not hitting into tight spaces or playing shots you are unfamiliar with. I don't hit flop shots out on the course because I don't know how. I also don't try to clear hazards or play to those distances because it is foolish to do so. So I am not saying, "don't ever lay-up", I am saying "only layup when the risk outweighs the reward of a very simple approach shot". I still say "Take me to Texas!" on most approaches because I value being in the right spot that is safe, as opposed to short siding myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Well I am certainly pleased this thread is going in the right direction...

It started out with hitting straight 160 yard shots and went on for 5 pages.

It is now hit 200+ yard straight shots.

After another half-a-dozen pages it will be hit a straight 260 yard drive and a short iron into the green... lol!

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On 9/29/2019 at 5:18 AM, 70sSanO said:

Well I am certainly pleased this thread is going in the right direction...

It started out with hitting straight 160 yard shots and went on for 5 pages.

It is now hit 200+ yard straight shots.

After another half-a-dozen pages it will be hit a straight 260 yard drive and a short iron into the green... lol!

John

Hahaha

As soon as someone dares to question that it might be the most sensible approach to break 90 might not be trying to hit the ball as far as you can at the tee box every time, in the words of The Joker, "EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS!!!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not a long hitter therefore my basic strategy is to reach Green in one over regulation. 

So for par 4 target is 3 to green. A two put would put me on target for 18 over but also still a chance here for a par. For par 5 aim to reach Green in 4.

For par 3's well depending on hazards many can be reached in regulation. 

Practice chipping up and down where miss greens in regulation + 1. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Hugh Jars said:

Hahaha

As soon as someone dares to question that it might be the most sensible approach to break 90 might not be trying to hit the ball as far as you can at the tee box every time, in the words of The Joker, "EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS!!!"

Nobody said that. Nice try, though.

You'll score better if you stop hitting the ball at the tee boxes and start aiming towards the greens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

4 hours ago, Hugh Jars said:

Hahaha

As soon as someone dares to question that it might be the most sensible approach to break 90 might not be trying to hit the ball as far as you can at the tee box every time, in the words of The Joker, "EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS!!!"

Man you miss entirely the point of this forum. This forum was established to help golfesr become the best they can be, period. It was not set up to do band-aid approaches to solve your swing issues for two rounds or quote the latest golf magazine tips.

Your constant fly-by posts with crappy thoughts only create more posts by others to repair the damage you do to threads with misinformation. You never read responses to your posts or even answer the questions that people have asked you. You essentially are a non-value added member of the forum at this point.

Here's a thought, try and read the posts and learn something from expert teachers and players. That is what most of us do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On 9/28/2019 at 5:18 PM, 70sSanO said:

Well I am certainly pleased this thread is going in the right direction...

It started out with hitting straight 160 yard shots and went on for 5 pages.

It is now hit 200+ yard straight shots.

After another half-a-dozen pages it will be hit a straight 260 yard drive and a short iron into the green... lol!

John

Actually, the "wisdom" that most of us will suggest is to hit it as far as you can while avoiding most of the trouble.  That's the best way to score as low as possible with your current set of skill.  If you choose to sacrifice distance for no particular reason, you choose to sacrifice some of your scoring potential. And if you really want to improve, most people will get the greatest scoring improvement by improving their full swing game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

2 hours ago, NDavis said:

I am not a long hitter therefore my basic strategy is to reach Green in one over regulation. 

So for par 4 target is 3 to green. A two put would put me on target for 18 over but also still a chance here for a par. For par 5 aim to reach Green in 4.

For par 3's well depending on hazards many can be reached in regulation. 

Practice chipping up and down where miss greens in regulation + 1. 

Great to be back on topic! Thank you. This style of play, I've found, really requires patience, paying attention to distances I actually CAN hit...playing within myself, not the other guy's game. Fortunately, I hit my driver in the fairway, though not particularly long. Then I try to own the 2nd shot. I try to see each shot not only for needed distance to set up the next shot to the green from my preferred distance, but to see every shot as a green light, yellow light or red light in terms of risk. Now that injuries are not hampering me, the HCP will fall IF I have the mental toughness to do this. Best, -Marv

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

3 hours ago, NDavis said:

I am not a long hitter therefore my basic strategy is to reach Green in one over regulation. 

If you are so short of a hitter than you cant reach greens in regulation then you should move up a tee box or two until you are playing from a tee box where a solidly hit drive leaves you with a reasonable approach shot in and gives you a chance for a GIR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

6 hours ago, Hugh Jars said:

Hahaha

As soon as someone dares to question that it might be the most sensible approach to break 90 might not be trying to hit the ball as far as you can at the tee box every time, in the words of The Joker, "EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS!!!"

No offense intended but it might be that the one losing their mind is the one who is unwilling to admit, in the face of data to the contrary, that the above approach is not the best one for the majority of amateur players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Hugh Jars said:

Hahaha

As soon as someone dares to question that it might be the most sensible approach to break 90 might not be trying to hit the ball as far as you can at the tee box every time, in the words of The Joker, "EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS!!!"

no GIF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Man you miss entirely the point of this forum. This forum was established to help golfesr become the best they can be, period. 

Welcome to The Sand Trap (TST)!

You've found the best place on the Internet to talk golf with your fellow golfers!
If you haven't signed in, you can register free! (or sign in) to get started!

 

Actually, the above is the opening I get whenever I click onto this forum.  THE BEST PLACE ON THE INTERNET TO TALK GOLF (and the reason I joined)

 

 

 

Edited by burr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, NDavis said:

I am not a long hitter therefore my basic strategy is to reach Green in one over regulation. 

So for par 4 target is 3 to green. A two put would put me on target for 18 over but also still a chance here for a par. For par 5 aim to reach Green in 4.

For par 3's well depending on hazards many can be reached in regulation. 

Practice chipping up and down where miss greens in regulation + 1. 

If the primary reason that you’re not reaching greens in regulation is because of the distance that you’re able to hit the ball, it’s time to move up a set of tees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

@burr, what does it say at the top of this forum?

https://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/12-instruction-and-playing-tips/

Besides, the description you quoted is for the site, and it's not "talking golf" to just rip on people, not reply to the questions asked of you, drive-by comment, etc. as @Hugh Jars has done. If you're going to talk golf, then talk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...