Do You Improve the Lie of the Ball?

[Vinsk]

On 10/9/2019 at 4:46 PM, billchao said:

No. There's a reason I'm confident I can hit out of any lie.

It's mostly delusion 😜

I’m not sure it’s a delusion with you Bill...I saw you hit out of some ferocious lies...and damn good too.😀

[Buckeyebowman]

I voted no, but that's not always true. I usually play the ball down, but it can depend on the situation. Last week I played, scrambling, against my buddy and his Son. I was stuck with his Bro and BIL, two shlubs! We allow ourselves a club length leeway, as per usual in scrambles, and everybody mugs the ball until they're happy. OK, it's not golf, it's a scramble. I played my brains out, and we only lost by 3 strokes. 

Yesterday afternoon I was just itching to play some golf, and called my buddy. He said he was meeting his Son and BIL at a certain course today. My buddy wanted to scramble ( he seems stuck on that format, even though he can golf his own ball quite well ), but the rest of us insisted on playing our own ball. So, I played my own ball, ball down, and shot a 77! Best round in quite some time!

[billchao]

58 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I’m not sure it’s a delusion with you Bill...I saw you hit out of some ferocious lies...and damn good too.😀

Ha thanks. You didn't meet me back when I thought I could hit 3w out of deep rough

[bwdial]

The only time I'll move my ball is if hitting the ball as it lies could cause damage to my club, myself, or someone else.  I play hilly courses in Georgia, and will frequently be faced with a rocky lie that has been created by water run-off.  I see no reason to damage a golf club, or worse, myself or another person with flying rocks, just to honor the rules of the game.  When I do move my ball in these cases, I pull it backwards to a non-rocky lie.

[Groucho Valentine]

On 10/9/2019 at 2:17 PM, Cantankerish said:

I was taught that if the course permits it, you can move a ball out of damaged terrain as long as it is on the fairway.  This does not come up often, but I have moved a ball out of wet areas in the past.  Now that I think of it, I have never checked to see if that is actually legal.  I would never do a Judge Smails though.  You miss the opportunity to learn.

Youre allowed relief for "unusual playing conditions" now and causal water.  Like if you take your stance and water or mud bubbles around your feet. I was playing in a tournament over the summer and a rules official have me relief in the fairway from a burnt out area. That normally would have been outlined in white, but i think its kind of a blanket thing now. So they dont really bother outlining poor course conditions anymore. 

[lastings]

I do it all the time in the fairway.   on casual rounds anyways.   In a divot?  pop that thing right out of there.   in souply muck after a rain?   lift, clean, and place.   

anywhere but the fairway, I don't touch it.   but, fairway lies aren't meant to be penalizing.  we play pretty nice courses, so rarely is there an issue.  but, when there is, I roll it.   As do my playing partners.  

[djake]

I grew up on rural nine hole golf courses.  Every high school golf match "winter rules" applied.  The best was when one kid tried to apply winter rules on the green.  Now that got everyone pretty excited and the coaches had to intervene.

Playing on courses that are better maintained I almost always play it as it lies.  There have been exceptions to this.  I do not mind hitting out of divots, sorta fun actually. 

Sand is my friend.  I would almost always prefer when I miss the green to be in a sand trap then green side 3rd cut.  Some of that grass is very nasty to chip out of and really takes concentration.   If the sand traps are not maintained then we all agree as to what we will or will not do.  I will not ruin a golf club with sand traps that have lots of rocks in them and I will not let another playing partner do the same.  It is not our fault the course cannot maintain the traps. There are times when I have run into sand traps that are not maintained and have found a very polite way of mentioning to the club house they should considering turning their sand traps into grass bunkers.  That usually leads to a pretty nice conversation about the topic.

Hitting off of really damp wet lies, that depends on if we are going out to dinner after golf and I do not have time to change clothes.  Then an automatic pick and drop.  Otherwise I will hit it.  90% of the time everyone is laughing because I am covered in mud.  But I enjoyed the challenge.

I generally do not care what others do when playing, tee it up all they want.  It is their game.  I never play for money with anyone as someone sooner or later gets upset at payout time.  Playing for a beverage is not an issue. Even if you lose you still get to enjoy the beverage.

Am I perfect with this rule?  No, I am out to play golf. 

But if I am playing in a tournament, or with serious golfers I have no issue hitting the ball where it lies.

 

[Double Mocha Man]

15 minutes ago, djake said:

Hitting off of really damp wet lies, that depends on if we are going out to dinner after golf and I do not have time to change clothes.  Then an automatic pick and drop.  Otherwise I will hit it.  90% of the time everyone is laughing because I am covered in mud. 

Aw geez... you had to bring back bad memories.  A while back playing with one golf buddy I splashed a mud shot on the 3rd hole... spattered all over.  I wiped most of it off my shoes, clothes and arms.  What Ron didn't mention the rest of the round is that I had a stylish little mud dot on the tip of my nose.  Drove home, stopped at my favorite bar.  Still, everyone was too kind (or diabolical) to mention the mud dot.  Got home and glanced in the mirror in horror.  I now carry a mirror with me on the course... in the form of a shiny, reflective flask.

[djake]

30 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Aw geez... you had to bring back bad memories.  A while back playing with one golf buddy I splashed a mud shot on the 3rd hole... spattered all over.  I wiped most of it off my shoes, clothes and arms.  What Ron didn't mention the rest of the round is that I had a stylish little mud dot on the tip of my nose.  Drove home, stopped at my favorite bar.  Still, everyone was too kind (or diabolical) to mention the mud dot.  Got home and glanced in the mirror in horror.  I now carry a mirror with me on the course... in the form of a shiny, reflective flask.

Thanks for the chuckle. I am sitting waiting for Mediterranean take out and rubbed the tip of my noise for a mud spot 😎

[iacas]

8 hours ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Youre allowed relief for "unusual playing conditions" now and causal water.  Like if you take your stance and water or mud bubbles around your feet. I was playing in a tournament over the summer and a rules official have me relief in the fairway from a burnt out area. That normally would have been outlined in white, but i think its kind of a blanket thing now. So they dont really bother outlining poor course conditions anymore. 

Almost none of that is accurate.

• It's "abnormal course conditions."
• It's "temporary water."
• The water has to be visible when you're standing still. "It's the stance, not the dance." So water when you're "taking" your stance may not count.
• ACC/GUR should still be outlined in white. Those rules didn't change at all.

P.S. An "Abnormal Course Condition" includes temporary water, ground under repair, and animal holes on the golf course.

[Double Mocha Man]

8 hours ago, Groucho Valentine said:

That normally would have been outlined in white, but i think its kind of a blanket thing now. So they don't really bother outlining poor course conditions anymore. 

Some entire golf courses should be outlined in white...

[iacas]

55 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Some entire golf courses should be outlined in white...

They are. It's what defines OB. 🙂

[Black Sail]

If I have a lie the puts me at risk of injury (i.e. my ball is behind a tree root or a rock) then I will move it to a safer spot. Generally, though, I play it down all the way through. 

[David in FL]

37 minutes ago, Black Sail said:

If I have a lie the puts me at risk of injury (i.e. my ball is behind a tree root or a rock) then I will move it to a safer spot. Generally, though, I play it down all the way through. 

You always have the option of declaring any ball unplayable...  

[iacas]

38 minutes ago, Black Sail said:

If I have a lie the puts me at risk of injury (i.e. my ball is behind a tree root or a rock) then I will move it to a safer spot. Generally, though, I play it down all the way through. 

The Rules of Golf allow for that. You just have to declare the ball unplayable and add the appropriate penalty..

Damn, David beat me to it.

On 10/8/2019 at 5:38 PM, Black Sail said:

Integrity is key in establishing an accurate handicap. Don't pull punched with yourself. That handicap is what keeps the game fair when playing against others of a different level. Just be honest and the game will take care of itself.

Given that, I'd be inclined to assume you do add the penalty strokes.

[Rkrider99]

We have a local root rule at our course. Most of the fairways are lined with big oaks, and the roots are everywhere. The staff tries to paint them all white, as GUR, but when we're near these trees, you can bet most of us are hitting the ground around the ball to check for roots just under the ball or in the swing path. No reason to break a wrist. The rule has been discussed within the club, and if you're ball is against a tree trunk, that's not a root. If you're going to move the ball, you add a penalty, but if the ball is on a root, or a root is right behind or ahead of the ball, you can take relief with no penalty. This also doesn't include standing on roots, when the ball has no roots around it. Play it as it lies.

[Black Sail]

On 10/11/2019 at 11:06 PM, iacas said:

The Rules of Golf allow for that. You just have to declare the ball unplayable and add the appropriate penalty..

Damn, David beat me to it.

Given that, I'd be inclined to assume you do add the penalty strokes.

You assume correctly in this instance.

[David in FL]

On 10/12/2019 at 7:14 AM, Rkrider99 said:

We have a local root rule at our course. Most of the fairways are lined with big oaks, and the roots are everywhere. The staff tries to paint them all white, as GUR, but when we're near these trees, you can bet most of us are hitting the ground around the ball to check for roots just under the ball or in the swing path. No reason to break a wrist. The rule has been discussed within the club, and if you're ball is against a tree trunk, that's not a root. If you're going to move the ball, you add a penalty, but if the ball is on a root, or a root is right behind or ahead of the ball, you can take relief with no penalty. This also doesn't include standing on roots, when the ball has no roots around it. Play it as it lies.

The fairways of my club are lined with water.  We don’t have a local rule allowing a free drop when we hit the ball somewhere that we shouldn’t have.

Don’t hit it in the trees...