LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[Shindig]

10 hours ago, keeps21 said:

There seems to have been a lot of misreading of the greens today.

I guess they were using their feet to vote on which tour they wanted to be on and forgot how to read greens with them.

10 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

How are you ever going to know all the benefits of the Stealth driver?!

I'm more worried that someone would skip the AT&T Lily commercials. 

9 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

The tour needs another Arnold Palmer!

Best I can do on short notice is Ryan Palmer.  But we (probably) also have a [Bubba] Watson.

[Aguirre]

1 hour ago, Big Lex said:

If, say, the Phoenix Open wanted to be a LIV event, could they do so? Does the PGA Tour own the tournaments?

I mean, they have contracts, but potentially, sure? And no they don't "own" the tournament. Outside of a few exceptions, nobody owns any of the run-of-the-mill PGA events.

[BruceMGF]

Quote

At that point it needs to be able to bring in the best young players that will only be on the LIV tour. 

"Bring in"?  This is one of the reasons I don't like this thing.  You qualify for the PGA (or DP) tour by Q-school, mini-tour, Monday qualifying, etc.  You bring yourself in.  Apparently this LIV tour just wants to pick players it likes, right now it's players established on existing tours, who knows in the future - players who say what they're told in public?

Quote

That is typically how new leagues move forward, establish, and then sign high profile young players before they join the old league/organization.  Once you get enough of the right names that are exclusively yours, you have leverage.

Where are these high profile players to come from?  The US college circuit?  This isn't college football.  Nobody's that high-profile for setting golf records at Purdue or wherever.

[klineka]

8 hours ago, Aguirre said:

I just checked the leaderboard of the LIV event. Lol. It's not better than the Canadian Open. Please with this shit.

Who is stating that it is? 

I haven't seen anyone say anything close to that.

 

27 minutes ago, BruceMGF said:

Where are these high profile players to come from?  The US college circuit?  This isn't college football.  Nobody's that high-profile for setting golf records at Purdue or wherever.

What are you talking about? There are plenty of really really really good players in the US College circuit right now... There are probably dozens of players playing in college right now who are good enough to make the cut at a PGA Tour event and compete in tournaments once they get a little experience. Guys like Morikawa, Hovland, Wolff, etc all came from the US College circuit... Also within the amateur/collegiate golf world, having multiple US AM champions are examples of high profile players IMO.

Edited June 10, 2022 by klineka

[BruceMGF]

16 minutes ago, klineka said:

What are you talking about? There are plenty of really really really good players in the US College circuit right now... There are probably dozens of players playing in college right now who are good enough to make the cut at a PGA Tour event and compete in tournaments once they get a little experience. Guys like Morikawa, Hovland, Wolff, etc all came from the US College circuit... Also within the amateur/collegiate golf world, having multiple US AM champions are examples of high profile players IMO.

But they weren't high-profile until they did something on a pro tour.  They don't come to the PGA with the reputation of a Heisman Trophy winner (some of whom have flamed out badly in the NFL).

To come to the PGA already having a big reputation, you've got to do something sperctacular (Tiger's three US Amateurs is all I can think of.  I suppose Bobby Jones, had he ever gone pro, would have come in with a big reputation).

[Friz]

Theres a lot of talk about LIV continuing to poach players from the PGA Tour, from the college ranks, top amateurs and the threat that poses to the PGA Tour....but there is a very distinct limit to that threat.  Every guy that goes over to LIV takes a spot in a very limited field.  There are only 48 players in each tournament.  There are only 8 tournaments, and even if it expands to more tournaments in the future, I'd think most guys that turn their back on the PGA Tour are going to need some assurance that they'll be able to play, whether they're coming from Amateur or Tour status.  Clearly they aren't going to have a lot of opportunities to play anywhere else.

How long will it be before a current PGA Tour member tries to leave for LIV, only to realize there isn't room in their field?  Or until a current LIV participant is bumped from fields and doesn't have anywhere else to turn?  At least Bryson and Reed are already replacing people after this current event.

The worst I can see is maybe LIV takes the US Amateur champ each year and a small handful of established tour guys, which would always seem to boot someone else out....but unless they expand field sizes or add significantly more tournaments (which either dilutes the super prestigious prize pools or requires a larger influx of cash from the Saudi's, because as far as I can tell there are no other revenue streams and a completely non-sustainable business model), there is a very hard cap to how many guys can leave for LIV

[Sandy Divot]

7 hours ago, Aguirre said:

I mean, they have contracts, but potentially, sure? And no they don't "own" the tournament. Outside of a few exceptions, nobody owns any of the run-of-the-mill PGA events.

Isn’t Phoenix played at a TPC course? If so, I believe TPC courses are owned by the PGA tour, so I doubt LIV could play at the same course the Tour currently uses. 

[klineka]

1 hour ago, BruceMGF said:

But they weren't high-profile until they did something on a pro tour.  They don't come to the PGA with the reputation of a Heisman Trophy winner (some of whom have flamed out badly in the NFL).

To come to the PGA already having a big reputation, you've got to do something sperctacular (Tiger's three US Amateurs is all I can think of.  I suppose Bobby Jones, had he ever gone pro, would have come in with a big reputation).

You're not making an apples to apples comparison though.

College football is significantly more popular than college golf, so of course a Heisman Trophy winner will have a larger reputation, but for those who follow collegiate/amateur golf, plenty of those players come to the PGA tour with big (relative to the interest in the sport) reputations.

Hovland won the 2018 US AM, was the low AM at the 2019 Masters, finished 12th at the 2019 US Open and was low AM there as well and set the record for the lowest amateur score in a US Open.

Matt Wolff as a freshman was a first team All American, won the Phil Mickelson Award for the nation's top freshman, was on the team that won the 2018 National Championship, won 3 consecutive collegiate tournaments as a sophomore, was the top ranked collegiate player and he won the Haskins award.

Plenty of people who know about and follow college golf knew who Hovland, Wolff, etc were coming out of college, just like they know about kids that are in college now and having loads of success now. LIV already has secured a number of (relative) high profile players coming right out of college including multiple former US AM champions.

Just because the average golf fan off the street doesn't know who James Piot is doesn't mean it wasn't a solid pickup of young talent by LIV.

[BruceMGF]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

 

Plenty of people who know about and follow college golf knew who Hovland, Wolff, etc were coming out of college, just like they know about kids that are in college now and having loads of success now. LIV already has secured a number of (relative) high profile players coming right out of college including multiple former US AM champions.

Just because the average golf fan off the street doesn't know who James Piot is doesn't mean it wasn't a solid pickup of young talent by LIV.'t

I didn't think LIV intended to appeal to anyone but the casual fan.  Not the hardcore.  

Question for the forum:  any idea what happens to players who join LIV without ever having been in the PGA (or DP)?  If they left LIV (or it collapsed) would they be welcome in the PGA?  

[imsys0042]

11 minutes ago, BruceMGF said:

I didn't think LIV intended to appeal to anyone but the casual fan.  Not the hardcore.  

Question for the forum:  any idea what happens to players who join LIV without ever having been in the PGA (or DP)?  If they left LIV (or it collapsed) would they be welcome in the PGA?  

Personally if the LIV collapses (fingers crossed) I think a lot of the players would be welcomed back, even if they "took some time off". before coming back   Maybe someone like Sergio goes bye-bye because he's such a douche, but if the LIV collapses that's a bad look and I doubt the Tour would do permanent bans, personally.

Maybe they do some things like drop their perks that winners get, reset their stats, earnings which affects their cards.  Or maybe they make them go thru Q school....

Edited June 10, 2022 by imsys0042

[Darkfrog]

Just tuned in to YouTube for my 30 min LIV curiosity view. The announcers had a segment talking about the PGA Tour response, which seemed like canned and predictable PR talking points, but I wonder if the PGA Tour broadcast will have any commentary about LIV. I'm guessing no mention of LIV, but it I'm curious to see if the broadcast mentions any of the absentee players, or if they have any overt or subtle LIV talking points.

A few mentions about how much fun all the players are having. My observation of the player's demeanor, they don't look like they are having more or less fun then any other event.

Lots of golf shots shown without a lot of fluff (didn't need to see the South African "team spirit" segment of them eating breakfast though), which I like. Seems to be a high proportion of putting/putts (I think I saw 6 putts in a row) which maybe is logistically easier then the other shots, and not necessarily different than the PGA Tour. But I'd rather see tee/approach shots.

I like the high volume of golf shown, but "Don't Blink" is a stupid slogan. Regardless of format, golf isn't a high action, fast moving game, unless you are playing speed golf or whatever it's called.

I'm not a fan of the perpetual sidebar leaderboard. Just show me the top 5 or 10 in one of the corners.

I'd like to have more context of each shot shown - there doesn't seem to be much information on distance to hole, lie, wind, club choice, other considerations like hole location, green contours, tree trouble, etc.

I was thinking about the shotgun start, and whether or not that is a good or bad thing. From a TV viewing perspective, I don't like it so far, because it feels disjointed, although this could also just be something that takes getting used to. Not sure how a shotgun start changes the fan experience viewing the event in person, but it seems like you could see more of the players you like in a traditional format if you wanted to follow morning and afternoon groups.

From what I've seen so far, there are bigger crowds around Phil's group, so he's clearly still a draw.

Overall, LIV broadcast does some good stuff, but still not a compelling product for me yet. Plus, blood money and stuff.

 

[iacas]

I think the shotgun start stuff works fine, but only once you really know where the players are. On the first day, I mean, the leaders can be all over the place. On the last day, I suspect the leaders will be starting on the first and maybe second holes. So it'll still mostly be the guys in last who started on 17 who are finishing their rounds on the 16th.

I tuned in yesterday almost subconsciously expecting the announcers to be acting like it's a bit of a joke, and "who are these guys?" and so on, so it was really jarring how gushing Jerry Foltz is. I'm with Brendan from SGS: there's no coming back for him. He's a ridiculous fool who sold his soul. The gushing he was doing about people I've never heard of, the legitimacy he so strongly tried to give to the event, was the worst.

Jerry Foltz, I used to respect the heck out of you, but now you're…

[Friz]

The sidebar leaderboard seems like itd be a fine addition if I had any idea who I was looking at.  Who thought it'd be a good idea to use a first initial and 3 characters of their last name?  Especially in a field full of relatively unknown guys?

It can't be that hard to just fit their entire last name....maybe if the completely pointless team logo didn't take up so much space....

[Vinsk]

3 hours ago, klineka said:

Just because the average golf fan off the street doesn't know who James Piot is doesn't mean it wasn't a solid pickup of young talent by LIV.

Yes. And there are ‘high profile’ players who really haven’t done much on the PGA TOUR such as Rickie Fowler. I know ‘much’ can be relative, but compared to his NIL his golf performance is quite mediocre.

[Darkfrog]

31 minutes ago, Friz said:

It can't be that hard to just fit their entire last name....maybe if the completely pointless team logo didn't take up so much space....

Yeah, seriously.

D.JSN, S.HOR, P.KWM, T.GCH, S.VNT, O.BEK, and J.MGN?

[Vinsk]

5 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

Yeah, seriously.

D.JSN, S.HOR, P.KWM, T.GCH, S.VNT, O.BEK, and J.MGN?

They probably want those logos to show …I see Merchandise coming in the future..🤣

[Darkfrog]

Just now, Vinsk said:

They probably want those logos to show …I see Merchandise coming in the future..🤣

I can't wait to get my full Team Fireballs kit.

[jmanbooyaa]

LIV not free but die queer is there new slogan. Sorry gay didn’t sound as good.