LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[DaveP043]

On 5/12/2022 at 5:34 PM, mdl said:

But that's not what's happening. PGA tour players aren't full time employees nor contractors with a contract committing them to full time. They've entered into an agreement with a buyer to supply at least 15 tournament appearances per year. They can choose (almost) any 15 weeks a year.

I like Paul Goydos take on the "independent contractor" issue:

 

 

[saevel25]

23 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I like Paul Goydos take on the "independent contractor" issue:

His take, and the legal take could be different. 

[DaveP043]

10 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

His take, and the legal take could be different. 

My best guess, if it ever went to trial, the result would be somewhere between the "lifetime ban" bluster and the "we're totally independent, the Tour has no power" bluster.  

[iacas]

9 hours ago, DeadMan said:

The quotes from Charley Hoffman and Webb are sure something:

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

9 hours ago, DeadMan said:

In addition to that, if you want forgiveness, there has to be remorse. I don't think there is any public remorse from Phil, and he seems to be quietly doubling down on everything with LIV. Even his statement after all this stuff came out was very much a non-apology.

Yeah, Phil hasn't even come close to saying "I made a mistake, please forgive me." People are allowed to react how they want.

[Vinsk]

Ricky Fowler ‘has considered’ the LIV? That’s surprising to me.

Rickie Fowler says he's considering playing in Saudi-backed LIV Golf series

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TULSA, OKLAHOMA - MAY 16: Rickie Fowler of the United States is interviewed by the media prior to...

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Vinsk

[Pretzel]

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Ricky Fowler ‘has considered’ the LIV? That’s surprising to me.

Rickie Fowler says he's considering playing in Saudi-backed LIV Golf series

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TULSA, OKLAHOMA - MAY 16: Rickie Fowler of the United States is interviewed by the media prior to...

 

The only thing surprising to me is that so many people are surprised by the idea that professional golfers might be interested in earning tens of millions just for appearing.

[imsys0042]

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Ricky Fowler ‘has considered’ the LIV? That’s surprising to me.

Rickie Fowler says he's considering playing in Saudi-backed LIV Golf series

---

TULSA, OKLAHOMA - MAY 16: Rickie Fowler of the United States is interviewed by the media prior to...

 

I don't have anything against Rickie, but he's always been more of a marketing guy for his brand than a serious competitor.  I'm sure he wants to win, but I get the vibe that he'd take 1 million Instagram followers for his PIP haul than a trophy.

Also, LIV is no cuts, and sure money...he's not playing well so I'm sure it's better for him.

[Vinsk]

On 5/17/2022 at 7:14 AM, Pretzel said:

The only thing surprising to me is that so many people are surprised by the idea that professional golfers might be interested in earning tens of millions just for appearing.

My surprise comes from the obvious ethical side of playing for the LIV. I think Rickie should be quite grateful that he’s made millions of dollars for not being very good. He says the PGA TOUR could do better? Yeah, so could he. 

[imsys0042]

On 5/17/2022 at 8:14 AM, Pretzel said:

The only thing surprising to me is that so many people are surprised by the idea that professional golfers might be interested in earning tens of millions just for appearing.

If Apple decided to sponsor a new golf league I don't think we would be having the same discussion, this is about who you are getting in bed with and how you are holding your nose for more money.   None of these guys that LIV wants are struggling.   They want big names, or at least people recognizable.   If the Saudis weren't involved, I think the discussion simply comes down to not having loyalty to the PGA Tour that gave them the nice lives they have.   And it's certainly a lot more understandable.

I'm in technology and I will not interview with Facebook, despite them calling every few months.   I think their business model and ethics are completely out of line with my morals and ethics and until I see some change, I wouldn't want to work there.   We aren't talking millions, but it would be more money and I choose not to work for somewhere that thinks that any activity it can track on any app/webpage you go to is fair game.  Aside from other things.   There are limits.  

[Darkfrog]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

I think Rickie should be quite grateful that he’s made millions of dollars for not being very good. He says the PGA TOUR could do better? Yeah, so could he. 

I was surprised to see Rickie's comments about LIV. I don't think he is in the top 100 in FedEx or OWGR. At this point in his career he seems to make his money off endorsements, so I'm not sure where we would see the Grant Thorton "playing through" commercial if he's not playing in the PGA Tour.

[Zeph]

Disappointing words by Rickie, but goes to show how loud money talks. Louder than systematic murder and oppression it seems.

[jmanbooyaa]

1 hour ago, Zeph said:

Disappointing words by Rickie, but goes to show how loud money talks. Louder than systematic murder and oppression it seems.

Losing a lot also plays into this. 

[boogielicious]

Frankly, if there are no cuts and everyone gets paid regardless, is it really a tournament? Sounds more like an exhibition to me. Come play for the Saudi Royal Family, the folks the brought you 9 11 2001.

[Zeph]

3 hours ago, jmanbooyaa said:

Losing a lot also plays into this. 

Of course, and losing means less money in the bank. I doubt he’s considering it to make him play better.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Frankly, if there are no cuts and everyone gets paid regardless, is it really a tournament? Sounds more like an exhibition to me. Come play for the Saudi Royal Family, the folks the brought you 9 11 2001.

WGCs have no cut. Yes it is still a tournament. They aren’t all paid the same.

[jmanbooyaa]

1 hour ago, Zeph said:

Of course, and losing means less money in the bank. I doubt he’s considering it to make him play better.

Yes, however lesser competition could lead to playing better. By that maybe looser and more confidence. All probably related. 

[mdl]

On 5/16/2022 at 8:18 AM, DaveP043 said:

I like Paul Goydos take on the "independent contractor" issue:

 

 

The issue is "independent contractor" plus monopsony, not "independent contractor" in a vaccuum.

[jbishop15]

I read Alan Shipnuck’s book on Phil today. A fascinating glimpse into Phil as a person. What struck me was how much of surface Phil (aggressive, arrogant, bombastic, generous) is pretty much Phil deep down. I didn’t really learn anything about him that I didn’t already know in a broad sense, which I didn’t expect 

One of my friends made a joke once about how if he could just ride a hot streak of golf he could make the tour and buddy that does feel how Phil has led his life — knife-edging everything and making it up down the road juuuust enough to keep the party going 

Really sad we are where are now with him.