LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[nevets88]

I thought Matsuyama isn't official yet?

LIV Golf, PGA Tour hypothetical matches we’d love to see

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Spoiler alert: It’s a bloodbath.

 

[Big Lex]

On 7/23/2022 at 4:50 PM, turtleback said:

The only aspect of his career that is not mediocre is his longevity.  In money list terms, over 20+ years he was in the top 25 only 4 times, while he was outside the top 50 8 times.  Good enough to keep his card, but hardly the stuff of stars.  Not only did he have only one top ten in a major he has a very poor record in both the Players and the WGC events, so he has been pretty lousy in premium events.  In 9 of his 20+ years he wasn't even ranked in the top 100 in the OWGR.  Other than his first 3 years he's only been in the top 50 on the OWGR once.  He's been around a long time mostly as a third tier player, occassionally sniffing the second tier.  Never made a Ryder Cup team, made 2 Pres. cup team's.  That all adds up to mediocre, relative to the standards of the Tour, in my book.  Except for his longevity.

And that the 'super widely respected' label is meaningless to me.  I put more stock in analyzing his record.  Heck, I'd bet half of those players with all this respect for his accomplishments still think Jack is the GOAT.  Howell comes across as a super nice guy and I'm sure that colors their thinking.  I'm sure he is highly and widely respected' as a person, but by the standards of the Tour he was meh, but for a very long time.

The details are here, for all to see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Howell_III

We could probably think of guys who have won majors who you can argue rank below CH III in terms of golf achievement. 

Not everyone is driven to win. It takes considerable energy and drive to get to the top of the top, even briefly, and who knows, maybe for whatever reason, he decided long ago that it wasn't worth it to him to do this. Maybe he's doing what he likes, which is just playing and cashing checks. I heard a story that CH III was working on his game, and his coach (?) or someone told him he needed to stop hitting full shots on the range and practice his short game and putting. 

So he did. 

But a few minutes later, he was back on the range hitting full shots. Because it's what he likes to do, maybe. 

I guess what's "mediocre" depends on who-all is in the pool, and so I get your argument, if we are comparing him to top champions. 

But when I think of someone like Charles Howell III, "mediocre" never comes to mind. Not even close. He's an amazing, durable athlete who has succeeded at a high level, for a long time, in a very demanding professional sport. 

[Friz]

48 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

I thought Matsuyama isn't official yet?

LIV Golf, PGA Tour hypothetical matches we’d love to see

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Spoiler alert: It’s a bloodbath.

 

He's not, neither is Cam.  Must be a slow news day if they're taking someone's Reddit post and making an article about it.

Theres a rumor that Hideki has a $400 Million offer on the table, which is insane if true.  I guess they're just trying to buy Japan?  But either way he hasn't accepted or commented at all on it yet

[The Flush]

The next time I choose to watch or not watch a golf broadcast because of the announcers will be the first time.

 

When traveling last week I listened to golf a little bit on SiriusXM and the announcers treated it like NASCAR in what I assume was an attempt to make it more interesting. No thank you.  It was more comical than entertaining. Golf broadcasts are a visual experience. There is not much an announcer can do to make it more interesting although they can make it worse by make incorrect statements.  Just the facts is all I need.

[Vinsk]

31 minutes ago, Big Lex said:

But when I think of someone like Charles Howell III,

And prior to the announcement he was going to LIV, when was the last time you thought about CHIII? I think that’s @turtleback point to some degree. I don’t think he’s just mediocre achievement wise, but popularity/needle moving wise he’s a bit of a dud.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, nevets88 said:

I thought Matsuyama isn't official yet?

LIV Golf, PGA Tour hypothetical matches we’d love to see

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Spoiler alert: It’s a bloodbath.

He isn't.

[turtleback]

2 hours ago, Vinsk said:

And prior to the announcement he was going to LIV, when was the last time you thought about CHIII? I think that’s @turtleback point to some degree. I don’t think he’s just mediocre achievement wise, but popularity/needle moving wise he’s a bit of a dud.

Exactly.  His 20+ career never measured up to the expectations of his early years.  The next person who says, "Hey, Charles Howell's playing this week's tournament - we need to go see it" will be the first one.

[iacas]

28 minutes ago, turtleback said:

Exactly.  His 20+ career never measured up to the expectations of his early years.  The next person who says, "Hey, Charles Howell's playing this week's tournament - we need to go see it" will be the first one.

Regardless, winning $43M and ranking in the top whatever he is for all-time earnings makes you well above a "mediocre" golfer.

Mediocre golfers last a few seasons and win a few million bucks at most. Your definition is out of whack if there's Tiger, Sergio, Rory, and twenty others, and everyone else is "mediocre." Thousands have played the PGA Tour in the time that CHIII played it.

[Friz]

17 minutes ago, turtleback said:

The next person who says, "Hey, Charles Howell's playing this week's tournament - we need to go see it" will be the first one.

I bet his mom has said that.  Maybe even his wife.  And yes I assume they use his full name.

[jbishop15]

Sergio has finished his sympathy circuit and has decided to keep playing on the DP World Tour along with LIV

god he's such a f***ing baby. all these years and i still cant stand him 

[Aguirre]

9 hours ago, iacas said:

Regardless, winning $43M and ranking in the top whatever he is for all-time earnings makes you well above a "mediocre" golfer.

Mediocre golfers last a few seasons and win a few million bucks at most. Your definition is out of whack if there's Tiger, Sergio, Rory, and twenty others, and everyone else is "mediocre." Thousands have played the PGA Tour in the time that CHIII played it.

Yes, you're 100% correct that Chuck Parnevik is an above average golfer. As you said, that career longevity and money list rank speak for themselves. 

But I'm like most of the other posters thinking who gives a f***. Nobody who is a FAN cares if he sticks around. He's bubbled up on a leaderboard in some nameless corporate sponsored droning "other" event every ten weeks for ten years. 

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Aguirre said:

Yes, you're 100% correct that Chuck Parnevik is an above average golfer. As you said, that career longevity and money list rank speak for themselves. 

But I'm like most of the other posters thinking who gives a f***. Nobody who is a FAN cares if he sticks around. He's bubbled up on a leaderboard in some nameless corporate sponsored droning "other" event every ten weeks for ten years. 

I never said fans care about him.

[Friz]

Changes to LIV for 2023

Report: LIV Golf to feature relgation, qualifying tournament beginning in 2023 | Golf News and Tour Information | GolfDigest.com

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Some players may be exempt from relegation depending on their contract with LIV Golf.

Relegation, but not real relegation

Quote

Beginning in 2023, LIV will keep season-long standings and will offer points to the top 24 finishers in each of its events. At the end of the season, four players from the bottom of the standings will be relegated—but some players and team captains may be exempt from relegation depending on their individual contract with LIV Golf. Other players outside the top 24 finishers could lose their playing privileges should their team decide against renewing their deals.

And a qualifying tournament full of players who have turned them down, and would become ineligible for the events that allowed them into the qualifier

Quote

A number of players will reportedly be exempt into the qualifying tournament, including major winners from the past five years, No. 2-32 on the money list from the LIV International series, the top 75 in the Official World Golf Ranking, PGA Tour and DP World Tour winners from the past year, and members of the most recent Ryder Cup and Presidents Cup teams.

But they'd also have a fixed field of 48 guys, and static teams, so the poaching does indeed have a maximum and end date

[turtleback]

14 hours ago, Aguirre said:

Yes, you're 100% correct that Chuck Parnevik is an above average golfer. As you said, that career longevity and money list rank speak for themselves. 

But I'm like most of the other posters thinking who gives a f***. Nobody who is a FAN cares if he sticks around. He's bubbled up on a leaderboard in some nameless corporate sponsored droning "other" event every ten weeks for ten years. 

Another little fact showing that Howell is mediocre except for longevity.  He has one top ten in a major and a t9 in the Players.  Every single player above him in the career money list has at least one major win except Matt Kuchar.  But Kuchar has a victory in the Players and 12 top tens in majors.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, turtleback said:

Another little fact showing that Howell is mediocre except for longevity.

He achieved that longevity because he’s not mediocre. If he’s mediocre it’s among “those who earned $25M+ and lasted 15+ years.”

And that’s not “another” as you’ve already shared it.

Longevity is important because of what it says about your level of sustained performance.

Thousands have been on Tour for a year or three. Few have done better than CHII for a career.

[Double Mocha Man]

On 7/18/2022 at 8:00 AM, Friz said:

And finally, I would never see a shotgun start as a positive in any round. 

Shotgun starts are for scrambles...

[mcanadiens]

Liv got Bubba.

Exclusive: Bubba Watson joins LIV Golf as Saudis land another major champion

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Bubba Watson is set to be unveiled during this week’s LIV Golf Series event as the Saudi rebel circuit’s latest big-name capture. The left-hander will play in the next £20 million tournament in Boston in the first week of September.

 

[Shindig]

15 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Liv got Bubba.

Exclusive: Bubba Watson joins LIV Golf as Saudis land another major champion

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Bubba Watson is set to be unveiled during this week’s LIV Golf Series event as the Saudi rebel circuit’s latest big-name capture. The left-hander will play in the next £20 million tournament in Boston in the first week of September.

 

Oh no not Bubba.  

Is now on the list of things I won't have to say when I see who is leading a (non-major) tournament I care about.

Okay, I'll add a fun fact about Bubba now that it probably won't happen again.  Did you know that the first time in PGA Tour history where back-to-back weeks had a Palmer and a Watson win tournaments were Ryan Palmer and Bubba Watson?