LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[Moxley]

So, reflecting on the actual golf side of this, I watched most of the last day of last weekends tournament. Overall, I thought it was a much better experience than the first one , and it looks like the coverage is getting better (less putting (though still too much), a bit more tee to green for those in contention) to match. I actually found myself being reasonably taken in by the team contest side of things, as Majesticks were in contention and are a largely English team. I think that sort of synergy between the players in teams will be important, at least in the early days for anybody to care. The leaderboard for the players also felt a lot more like a higher level event than the first two, though the strength of the field is still objectively not too strong yet. Still a few things I'm not sure about (music, no cut), and one thing I really can't stand ( shotgun starts ). 

[iacas]

[turtleback]

2 hours ago, Shindig said:

The hardest part for me is how many players are saying, seriously, something Zach Johnson said in jest on Letterman a decade and a half ago.  "I need to take a vacation from all this golf."

The hardest part for me to respect are people with net worths in the tens of million saying they did this to support their families.

 

3 hours ago, imsys0042 said:

No golfer is bigger than the sport.   Yet Mickelson strikes me as someone who thinks he is.   

He and Norman both.

Edited August 3, 2022 by turtleback

[Vinsk]

2 hours ago, Moxley said:

So, reflecting on the actual golf side of this, I watched most of the last day of last weekends tournament. Overall, I thought it was a much better experience than the first one , and it looks like the coverage is getting better (less putting (though still too much), a bit more tee to green for those in contention) to match. I actually found myself being reasonably taken in by the team contest side of things, as Majesticks were in contention and are a largely English team. I think that sort of synergy between the players in teams will be important, at least in the early days for anybody to care. The leaderboard for the players also felt a lot more like a higher level event than the first two, though the strength of the field is still objectively not too strong yet. Still a few things I'm not sure about (music, no cut), and one thing I really can't stand ( shotgun starts ). 

Really? Gosh. Totally different for me. I mean, I love golf…but it’s golf. The announcers trying to act like they’re at an NCAA Final Four 75-75 with 3 seconds less is just annoying. Stenson hits a shot from 130yds within 6’ and Feherty acts like Tiger just holed out on 16 at Augusta. 

[Friz]

Phil Mickelson was suspended by PGA Tour in March for recruiting LIV players; currently serving 2-year ban | Golf News and Tour Information | Golf Digest

 

[phillyk]

9 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I agree. 👍

I just meant that I didn't think he'd alienate folks on this forum by suggesting that LIV Golf was NOT about "growing the game". No matter what side of the political aisle you stand, I'm pretty sure everyone knows that LIV Golf was never about "Growing the game." 

Nope. My buddy eats every word of it. He thinks PGA Tour is about to fail and disappear, to be replaced by LIV. He thinks LIV is better at growing the game than the PGA Tour. He thinks Nike is the same as SA. I’ve given up with it. He is so obsessed with money, that he is blind to all else. 

[Shindig]

56 minutes ago, phillyk said:

Nope. My buddy eats every word of it. He thinks PGA Tour is about to fail and disappear, to be replaced by LIV. He thinks LIV is better at growing the game than the PGA Tour. He thinks Nike is the same as SA. I’ve given up with it. He is so obsessed with money, that he is blind to all else. 

That's ... wow.  I went from being a pretty big Nike fanboy to not being fond of them at all, but at whatever point I held the lowest opinion of Nike that I have held, I never thought they were anywhere as bad as SA.  

[DeadMan]

So I scanned the complaint pretty quickly. Some thoughts:

• The lawyers representing the players are some real heavy hitters. The complaint probably cost around a million dollars for them to draft. These lawyers are the best of the best.
• LIV itself has basically a slam dunk antitrust case against the PGA Tour. It’s not a plaintiff here, though. A lot of the complaint seems like it was written for LIV to be a plaintiff.
• I give the players around a 75% chance to succeed. I don’t know enough about antitrust law to handicap it better, but it seems like a pretty strong case for the players. 
• The PGA Tour is not going to be a good client. There are a lot of stupid things in here that they did. But, they’ve also hired good lawyers, even if they are not quite the same caliber as the players’. 

[Aguirre]

On 8/1/2022 at 9:44 PM, chriskzoo said:

Who is the largest sponsor of the LPGA Tour?

Saudi Aramco. 

 

That would be interesting to me if (a) we were talking about the LPGA tour, (b) they were the SOLE sponsor the LPGA Tour, and (c) I gave a shit about the LPGA tour. 

Triple fail.

[Vinsk]

1. We’re going to LIV Golf because the schedule gives us more time to pursue activities outside golf and be with our families more.

2. We’re suing the PGA TOUR because they won’t let us spend our time outside the LIV GOLF Tour playing golf on the PGA TOUR.

[Big Lex]

9 hours ago, GolfLug said:

Guess who is laying down his groundwork to defect to LIV.

I wanna say Cameron Smith. The real shock would be Sir Eldrick. 

[GolfLug]

4 hours ago, Big Lex said:

I wanna say Cameron Smith. The real shock would be Sir Eldrick. 

Ohh, sorry for not quoting the previous post but I was talking about James Hahn. His rant seemed like a segway for a jump. Sometimes my posts don't work like they appear in my head.. ha ha.

But since you mentioned Cam Smith, that would be bit of a heart breaker. Among the defectors, the only one I somewhat cared about is DJ. 

I am not sure how Tiger can go. He prolly wouldn't be able to play enough even by LIV standards. But who knows, maybe they don't care even if he shows up but once a year. Tabloid headlines keep saying he turned down offers. 

Anyway, a bit of numbness starting to set in about the whole thing.

[iacas]

[imsys0042]

1 hour ago, GolfLug said:

Ohh, sorry for not quoting the previous post but I was talking about James Hahn. His rant seemed like a segway for a jump. Sometimes my posts don't work like they appear in my head.. ha ha.

I am not sure how Tiger can go. He prolly wouldn't be able to play enough even by LIV standards. But who knows, maybe they don't care even if he shows up but once a year. Tabloid headlines keep saying he turned down offers. 

Tiger turned down around 900 million dollars to be associated with LIV.

James Hahn is a whiny douche.   He has the Pat Perez argument which is basically somehow the Tour forces him to travel the way that he does.  These guys whine like employees being told what to do when it suits them, and then they play the "independent contractor" card when they want to act with impunity when its suits them.

 

[ChetlovesMer]

1 hour ago, GolfLug said:

Anyway, a bit of numbness starting to set in about the whole thing.

For you and me both. 👍

 

8 minutes ago, imsys0042 said:

 These guys whine like employees being told what to do when it suits them, and then they play the "independent contractor" card when they want to act with impunity when its suits them.

I kind of thought the same thing. 

[Friz]

4 hours ago, GolfLug said:

Ohh, sorry for not quoting the previous post but I was talking about James Hahn. His rant seemed like a segway for a jump. Sometimes my posts don't work like they appear in my head.. ha ha.

But since you mentioned Cam Smith, that would be bit of a heart breaker. Among the defectors, the only one I somewhat cared about is DJ. 

I am not sure how Tiger can go. He prolly wouldn't be able to play enough even by LIV standards. But who knows, maybe they don't care even if he shows up but once a year. Tabloid headlines keep saying he turned down offers. 

Anyway, a bit of numbness starting to set in about the whole thing.

Numbness is a really good way to describe it.  It was somewhat fascinating at first, like a train wreck that you can't look away from.  I tuned into a few minutes of the first two events for that same reason, they were pretty much what I expected and held absolutely no long term appeal, and the commentary specifically turned me off quicker than anything else.  For the third tournament, I just didn't care.  Nothing to see, not interesting for any of the past reasons, didn't give it an ounce of thought.

The players leaving feels the same way...unless they pull one of the true A-Tier guys, its just white noise at this point.  James Hahn wants to go to LIV?  Oh no!  Anyway....he's just another B, C, or D-Tier guy that isn't moving the needle for me.  LIV confirmed 48 permanent guys is their intent for next season, so if I have to accept LIV existence, even if its short term, then great fill it up with guys like James Hahn who's presence won't be missed by the PGA Tour.  The tour will be just fine and have plenty of guys hungry to take his place.

No chance Tiger goes, he's already a literal billionaire, and turned down $700-$800 million according to Greg Norman himself.  But Cam Smith would be very disappointing for me as well, would be the first true loss in my eyes.

 

Also, the excuses for leaving have always felt shallow, but the lawsuit is almost funny at this point.  "The PGA Tour is making me play too many events, I need more free time!"  "Congratulations, you made it to LIV, what are you going to do with all your extra time now?"  "I'm going to find a way to go play all those extra PGA Tour events!"

 

[Zeph]

Tiger is still around pretty much because he wants to win more majors. Going to LIV could jeopardize that. He’s loaded for life in the financial department and I really hope he never considered defecting for the sake of his own legacy.

[GolfLug]

50 minutes ago, Friz said:

Also, the excuses for leaving have always felt shallow, but the lawsuit is almost funny at this point.  "The PGA Tour is making me play too many events, I need more free time!"  "Congratulations, you made it to LIV, what are you going to do with all your extra time now?"  "I'm going to find a way to go play all those extra PGA Tour events!"

 

Ha ha ha ha ha.. FULL CIRCLE!